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Old 03-16-2002, 08:35 PM
Posts: n/a
Subtitle: The Debbil Made Me Do It.

To whom it may concern,

If anyone other than Lightman is reading this, please accept my apologies if I seem to go around in circles--responding to this thread has too many loose ends, so to speak--so please bear with me.

Lightman, this is just for you.

Although my last post was admittedly lengthy, it was well under the maximum allowed, so unless you are the moderator of this forum and find some valid reason to take exception to the content of my post, get over it.

Actually, you were not obligated to read it, and it must have been quite a waste of time for you, since you obviously consider yourself knowledgeable about "some of the most basic things about oil that people generally know".

I beg to differ with your opinion if you continue to insist that "newer synthetics like Amsoil - have strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation, especially in diesels, where blowby is more of a concern".

Actually, sulphuric acid formations are not so much of a problem in diesels unless the diesel happens to be in the family car and is used for errands and lugging the kids around. Commercial vehicles, including diesel-powered ones, operate over long periods and the high engine operating temperatures tend to keep sulphuric acid formation to a minimum.

More to the point, blowby is of more concern in diesels and any engine with a combination of high compression and large pistons, because blowby is the only reason for carbon particles, sorry, the new, improved term is particle/soot content, otherwise known as "that black crap that makes the oil look so dirty".

No matter how bad it looks to a purist, carbon particles have absolutely nothing to do with engine wear, and just because the oil looks dirty, that condition alone does not make it so.

By the way, do the "strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation" have a name? Why haven't the marketing novelists been told?

I did not find any reference to "strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation" on the Amsoil web site, but I did learn that "AMSOIL also has a Health Division called ALTRUM, which sells Multivitamins, AquaBrite Water Filters, Pure Power Cleaning Products and AGGRAND Natural Fertilizer Products". To me, that reminds me of Amway International, the get-rich soap pyramid scheme.

Your supposition,

"I think you've left out one of the single most important factors related to engine wear with oil - particle/soot content. Thats why there is such a huge buzz about bypass oil filtration(which filter your oil down to 1/10th of a micron in certain brands), and how they extend the life of your engine. As well as the preference of oils with especially good soot suspension qualities. Auto manufacturers all recognize that particles down to the size of a few microns cause engine wear - and that an OEM filter traps particles in the 20-40 micron range at an average 85% efficiency."


leads me to believe that you may be the perfect candidate for that bridge in Brooklyn that I have just put up for sale. That is, if you have not yet signed your life over to Amway--sorry, Amsoil.

To anyone other than Lightman who is still hanging in there...

I must apologize for the fact that I actually started this thread here, but somehow added all the previous crap. The debbil must have made me do it.

Anyway, now you have an idea as to what I previously meant by 'a thread with a lot of loose ends'...

Lightman, you can start reading again.

Thanks for enlightening me concerning 'oil-particle/soot content' and 'bypass oil filtration', which seem to be new terms for old concepts.

Your observation is right on target concerning my spending a lot of time (and typing) if, and only if, I were so misguided as to think I could change your mind about any subject whatsoever.

The thought never occurred to me. Actually, I am surprised that you took the time to respond, considering the facts you are presenting to back up your assertion.

First, I did not think oil was the subject--I thought the subject was 'Any fanatics religiously change oil @ 2.5K intervals or less?'

To me, the subject title was doublespeak for 'Is anyone stupid enough to change oil @ 2.5K intervals or less?' to which I gave a tediously long dissertation that attempted to answer the more reasonable questions and theories presented by people who were interested in the subject.

Although that was my first post on this site and I did not even consider the length until I saved it. I was surprised to discover it was 8800 or so characters long, but still much less than the maximum of 10000 allowed.

If someone had asked for a short response, I could have simply responded with just one paragraph,

"Sulphuric acid does not go away on it's own--it will not evaporate--if the oil is not changed, the damage continues to occur. For this reason alone, vehicle manufacturers recommend the oil change every umpty-ump miles OR three months. The three months is to ensure that any sulphuric acid is eliminated at least every three months."

For some reason, when I went back and copied that paragraph from my original post, I realized why you responded to my post with 'smoke and mirrors' tactics. Because I had to surround that paragraph with a lot of facts (time and typing) that just happen to make sense, and because the facts are contrary to your opinion, that blows you away, because then you had to work like hell to discredit me so you could hide the fact that your opinion sucks hind tit.

When I was much younger, I had cars that used 'bypass oil filtration', but we just used the now-antiquated term 'oil filter'. Later on, high performance demands finally got the auto manufacturers off their butts and then we had 'full flow oil filters', which still serve us adequately today. It seems to me that many of these new terms were invented so snake oil merchants could sell the gullible public products that could remove that gunky sludge from their old oil just like they did forty years ago. The only problem was, even though your oil looked like you just poured it out of the can, all it filtered out were the larger chunks of metal, any bugs that got into the engine while you were topping it off and that icky-gunky bunch of carbon particles nowadays referred to as 'oil-particle/soot content'. As a matter of fact, back in the '30s, when your oil started getting that 'dirty' look, it was time to change the filter. Lots of people took the cheap way out and used a roll of toilet paper, but I was a hot-rodder enthusiast who just had to have the good stuff, so I plunked my money down for a Fram or whatever to the company that had the best techno-speak writers who coined the fancy terms and spent big bucks on advertising in the auto magazines. Over the years, things haven't changed much.

In my younger days I was an aircraft engine mechanic. The engines ranged in size from around seven cylinder-16 liters to twenty-eight cylinder-70 plus liters, some producing one horsepower per pound with the largest weighing around 4000 pounds. They had every gizmo and gadget regardless of cost that a guy would want in an engine to provide reliability, low weight and all the power that could be wrung out of a gasoline powered piston engine. The oil was straight SAE 50 weight. Air cooled engines have never used detergent oil. The largest engine used a 50+ gallon oil tank and the oil was replaced when the engine was changed, after about 2000 hours of flight, which equates to about 500,000 miles. Oil was filtered through a pair of oil filters about the same diameter and length as a my MB V8, but they consisted of layers of fine mesh to filter out anything that might interfere with oil flow. Magnets were used to catch metallic particles and the oil was analyzed as part of periodic maintenance inspections. These engines were machined to the same tolerances as today's automobile engines and the gasoline powered piston engines in aircraft today still use the same oil, filters and procedures.

Particles measured in microns have significance in marketing executives imaginations, but are not credible as a way to increase reliability or reduce wear.
Engine bearing clearances are measured in thousandths of an inch, and three-thousandths clearance can pass a whole bunch of 20-40 micron particles of carbon, or oil-particle/soot stuff. I have never heard of soot particles that could cause engine wear, which is the primary reason for filtering oil in the first place.

Your last point, in a roundabout way still implies that old is inferior, which is beside my main point that if you do not eliminate sulphuric acid from your oil, your engine bearings will continue to be damaged.

Marketing claims about 'strong additive packages' will not rid your oil of sulphuric acid, and I sincerely doubt that an old technology, hence inferior, bypass filter will either.

Well, I guess that is all I have to say, and since I have 'wasted' the better part of a day, I hope it was worth it for someone, but I do not expect that someone to be Lightman...

Hell, I don't even know if I blew away the smoke or broke any mirrors, but if someone is still reading this, and if you learned anything other than how Realneal makes an ass of himself, drop me a line.

Now I'll see if I broke 10,000 whatevers.
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