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Old 11-04-2010, 09:23 PM
benzhacker benzhacker is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Currently in SoCal, originally from far far away
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier View Post
Thank you. Here are the answers. I forgot to sat that MB was septic today about the L/P and the return valves. But I still hope. Just a large FPHE, here is a picture of it.
I don't see the picture, but even a large and well made 30 plate won't cut it by itself. Cold start issues, fuel purge at shutdown, etc. are major concerns which impact longevity. There is a reason properly built single tank systems from Germany top US $3K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier
I only gravity filter the oil, I do once in awhile a Hot Pan Test and its all clear there. I do not de-water the oil as its dry ( HPT) and I don't have the facility to do so anyway.
Gravity filtering is a good starting point, but insufficient by itself. How many tanks to you have for your setup? Do you use a proper filter or mechanical separation (centrifuge) when you transfer from the leach tank to the storage tank? How far down do you filter it (10 microns is bare minimum, 1-3 micron preferred)? To get oil through the filters, you'll need to heat it and for that purpose re-used electric heating elements from domestic appliances can save on cost to satisfy this requirement.

You can buy test strips for pennies that help determine just how dry the oil is. Spot checking with the pan test is good practice, but it needs to be for EVERY batch, not just now and again. The test strips are more accurate and are quick to use and discard for every batch. You want to be below 500 parts per million as an absolute maximum. TDI/CRD injectors tolerate even less water (200-250 range), which is quite dry and harder to achieve without a more complete fuel management system.

Gravity settling isn't effective in temperate climates unless you plan to wait for many weeks/months to get the oil "almost" clean enough to use. The smallest particles (1-20 microns in size) can stay suspended in WVO/SVO for months, only adding heat can accelerate the process. I hope you are not using a common container to both leach the particles and store finished/polished fuel. It's not practical.

[QUOTE=Olivier]
Just the original car tank, no double or spare tank
[/QOUTE]

Cold starts must be quite an adventure! You must have a good electrical system and fresh battery and glowplugs, but how long that can compensate for high viscosity fuel is anyone's guess. The biggest issue I see is a lack of a good cleansing agent of the fuel system between start/stop cycles. Gumming up injector nozzles, fuel hose interiors, filters, quite awful prospects. Even mixing diesel or kerosene into the WVO/SVO to cut the viscosity won't solve a lot of the problems this fuel setup creates.

[QUOTE=Olivier]
No gauge, but the car run at 80 degrees, the FPHE is bringing the oil at this temperature. I had few bubbles right after the filter that was bugging me for a while. There were none after the FPHE where its suppose to nbe the hottest, but some right away after the filter going to the SOV? I found out that the L/P was sucking the hot oil ( mix with acetone- 0.015%- and the left over of RUG/ injector cleaners/ molly purge that I had the last week) then back into the filter that is boiling hot, this was making the mix boiled... Then to be short, its hot there once the car is at temperature.
[/QOUTE]

Given the lack of the usual recommended bits in a WVO/SVO conversion, your response on temp regulation probably doesn't matter. The bubbles after the filter are likely a bad seal between the pickup and the filter body allowing air into the system. That you have no bubbles before the filter but have bubbles after is your hint.

[QUOTE=Olivier]
As above, only a singlre tank.
No extra pump, yes I am making the L/P working hard
Not insulated, no other component either then the FPHE
[/QOUTE]

Your current state of fuel system "conversion" is quite incomplete from the list provided. You are almost certainly not getting the fuel hot enough to ensure effective atomization. Tricks like advancing the IP timing a few degrees won't help. You really need at least 140F fuel temperature and with no second tank or or multiple stages of fuel pre-heat, you aren't going to achieve that even at full engine operating temperature. This gives cause for concern given WVO/SVO viscosity and the propensity to produce coking deposits when not sufficiently hot (there are virtually no reports of problems from "overheating" fuel, even with glow plug fuel heating, but plenty of reports of fuel that is too cold).

About the minimum for reliable operation is 145 F, though there is a growing consensus that the optimal temperature is 160-190F, with one German report indicating a temperature of 220 F to obtain parity with the viscosity of #2 diesel fuel. Without electrical pre-heaters and no separate fuel tank to start the engine and purge, you aren't just working the lift pump hard, you are working the entire system hard.

From the thread, you are stated you are pressed for funds to either go back to commercial diesel/biodiesel fuels. This would also likely prevent you from completing a high quality conversion (single tank is by FAR the hardest to do well without a professionally manufactured kit). This doesn't give a lot of latitude for suggestions. Here is my list thus far, in order of priority, do with it as you so choose:

1. Rectify the fuel leak at or near the fuel filter - there should never be bubbles in the fuel system - if you don't have a hand pumped fluid vacuum system (used for oil changes, brake fluid changes, transmission fluid changes, etc.) borrow one and use T fittings to draw fuel though the lines and get out any bubbles after you are convinced the seals on the fuel filter have integrity. Start from the fuel line at the firewall and work your way to the Injection Pump, drawing fluid with the hand pump one segment at a time. If bubbles re-appear, the main fuel filter, a hose, a fitting are indeed still leaking.

2. Check all your fuel lines from the tank to the Injection Pump. The amount of suction that lift pump is being asked to provide to move a thick column of fuel may be causing any original fuel lines, which will soften from exposure to WVO/SVO and can partially collapse under suction. Hoses are only supposed to last around 5-7 years with only diesel fuel in them, add biodiesel or the much more reactive WVO/SVO fuels and the hoses will swell in a matter of months. Your hoses will ultimately need to be replaced with SAE J30R9 or pure fluoroelastomer/fluorocarbon (SAE J30R11 equiv) hose. The "30R9" hose isn't expensive compared to Viton (fluorocarbon/fluroelastomer), a full set for the whole engine compartment is around $55.00.

3. Have the injectors pressure, flow and volume tested if the first two don't work out. One bad batch of fuel can foul the nozzles, though in your case merely warm (rather than hot) WVO, with or without excess water content, will have left it's mark on the nozzles, prechambers and over time, the piston rings. You really need to consider investing some additional thermal gain stages prior to the injection pump. The injection cleaning/testing will run about $75.00 at any honest diesel shop. Replace heat shield and seal before replacing the injectors - those seals/crush waster heat shields are one use only.

4. Get some brass fittings into which you can plumb an appropriate glow plug. You'll need some fairly good 10 gauge or thicker wire and a junction point, an inline fuse rated for the amperage of the glowplug and a fitting into which to screw the glowplug. Look around, they are cheap as are decent glow plugs - even a good used one will do. Rather than heating the fuel directly as some prefer, I go the more conservative route and heat the coolant passing into the FPHE exchanger (you have one, this is a good way to boost the heat). Depending on the glow plug, and the quality of your wiring, you can expect 15-25 degrees added to the FPHE without fear of carbon buildup on the glowplug. If you get a big enough fitting, you could perhaps fit two such glowplugs and nearly double the added heat. Just be sure to insulate the fitting or you'll lose some of the heat to the air rather than the intended coolant heating.

5. Heat the fuel coming from the tank. It doesn't need to be dramatic. If you can get the fuel to at least 80-90F it will be much easier to pull to the lift pump. You can use a wraparound fuel heating coil, electric or coolant heated (using aluminum coil around the metal fuel line near the tank with insulating sleeve, such as the black plumbers insulating sheath for copper pipes). Either way, you don't need a lot of heat here, but you do need some.

6. Buy or borrow a thermometer, IR types are the best, but anything is better than none and with a fully warm engine, see where the lines are hottest, where they are coldest and how much heat you are losing between tank, engine compartment, FPHE, fuel filter and IP. Adjust, insulate when in doubt and always, always, always test your fuel before putting it in the car!

Note that above will improve your system without adding much cost, but it's a far cry from where it needs to be if you intend to stick with a single tank system. You'll note there are a LOT of electrically heated components in those single tank systems, plenty of relays and temp sensors, a controller and good temperature regulation throughout.

As for fuel, you need to have scrumptiously clean fuel supply, consistently filtered below 10 micron and free of water or oxidation (sight and smell test are adequate if you are experienced, test strips if not) if you intend to keep the beasty on the road.

In any case, good luck. You will no doubt require it!

-BH
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