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Old 11-13-2014, 10:54 AM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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617 weird behavior diagnoses

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM617YOTA View Post
Thanks for the help, folks.



The engine ran BEAUTIFULLY for several thousand miles before this started up, I would think compromised valve springs would have shown up immediately?



Smoke is the same. Constant gray at idle, blue when cold started, good cloud of blue when given throttle the first time, which clears and goes gray. Lately, when I'm really on the throttle and revving it hard(freeway onramp or such), I've noticed some serious black smoke at heavy throttle that gets even thicker for 1/4 second or so after I let off the throttle?



Greazzer rebuilt the injectors not once but twice. Could I have done something to screw them up again?

Didn't mean to hijack your thread buddy sorry. But it's good to know info for diagnosing.

As far as springs, you have to get down to atomic properties of metal. If you know how magnets work, that helps. Sitting will start to break the bonds. Maybe once you relieve pressure they will return to shape, but heat is a catalyst. What remaining bonds holding the tension will break down with time. How much time, I'm not a chemist nor have looked at your springs under a very expensive microscope.

IMO, I would suspect three separate problems (hey your down from 4)!

Noise from valve springs being loose. A simple method would be to pull one and mic it uncompressed. Mine were at 48.5 and FSM states 50.1. I did this for fun, I'm replacing no matter what.

Acceleration smoke may be your valve stem seals. But I would suspect guides if it's significant. If the clearances were tight as they were supposed to be less oil could drop through. My previous motor has some play, yet to be measured, and wasn't smoking. Maybe my seals were good. Idk.

The black smoke at hard acceleration may be your pump turned up to much. You just switched injectors so don't assume it was fine before. Someone may have cranked it up to deal with faulty injectors.

Personally, I would order valve springs and valve stem seals. I would do a wet and dry compression test to determine where my rings were at. I got the harbor freight compression tester, works good. I got the leak down tester too, I don't think it lets enough pressure through. I ended up hooking my compressor direct to the cylinder and setting my regulator at 20lbs. I unbolted my intake and exhaust and listened out the manifolds. I had air coming out my exhaust manifold, so I have a really bad seat or burnt valve. The leak down test would tell you if you have a valve leaking and influence your decision on getting the head rebuilt or not.

When the springs and seals came in, I would put #1 cylinder at tdc, hold onto the exhaust valve for dear life, remove the spring, put the cap and a nut back on, and lower it to confirm that it hits the piston. If so, remove the cap and nut, and wiggle it around both fully seated and slightly dropped. Your checking for valve guide wear the redneck way. A perfect guide and valve shouldn't wiggle, but a little play might not be a huge problem. Yet.

If I didn't feel any play, I would throw a new seal and spring on and call if done.

If I felt play, I would go back to my compression readings, and maybe leak down test. If I got high compression and low difference between wet and dry I would throw the new seal and spring on. Despite having play your rings are good and your head is sealing. If you have the finances, get it rebuilt. Otherwise check up on your compression regularly. With play comes valve seat issues.

If I got medium or low compression and low difference between wet and dry I would pull the head and have it rebuilt. Your rings are good but your head isn't sealing. Seals will stop the smoke and springs will stop the noise, but you are going to burn a valve eventually.

Walk into the machine shop with it completely disassembled (but labeled in separate bags) and dirty greasy clothes on, unshaven. Tell them a shop referred you.

If I got medium or low compression, and a HIGH difference between wet and dry, I would throw seals and springs and run the SOB. Your rings are worn and your head might not be sealing. You would have time to look for a motor and then sell me your old one dirt cheap 😏

Except for the last scenario, I would then have an expert adjust the pump. I don't do that, but some do. In the case of the last scenario, it's a perfect time to play with the fuel screw yourself and learn, as you will be replacing the motor. You probably won't get it as good as a pro, but if you really wanted to know ask one after you try it.

As far as your injectors, did you put the heat shields in? I just found one without them. I used my injectors from my original motor, and am sending a set to the same man for new nozzles. I have good rings and am having a head fully rebuilt, so I'm going long term.

Your username has toyota in it, what do you have that motor in? Show us some pics. Personally I'm researching dropping something into a 84 yota I have located in hawaii. It has a long travel suspension kit and lockers, and I shipped it there from California so it's rust free.



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Last edited by Lucas; 11-13-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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