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Old 12-06-2004, 12:03 AM
JimSmith JimSmith is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Originally Posted by leathermang
That is the purpose... give people more than one side of the questions and answers....
However, the PHYSICS and LOGIC are all on my side on this one..... LOL

Not to be argumentative, but on my 240Ds the drain plug is in the side of the oil pan, very close to the bottom, but not quite. It threads in from the side so the openning cannot be flush with the bottom. In the past, I used to jack the car up on one side to get the last bit out. I honestly do not think there is much difference between the topsider and draining with the car level or however it sits on a reasonably level plot of driveway.

I also use a topsider device that has a tube that fits all the way down the dipstick until it bottoms. And, I use Delvac 1. When I change the oil in my Diesels it stays clear for a while now. It never did that in the past, which I attribute to the use of Delvac 1 and regular, hot oil changes, which have all been done with a topsider (I have been using one since about 1987 and Delvac 1 for the last three years). The 1998 stays clear for about 150 or so miles and the 240D stays clear for about 20 miles. I do not think there is much crud left in the bottom of the pan if you use a very high quality oil and you change it hot and often, especially if the oil stays clear for more than a few seconds. The biggest benefit to your Diesel is removing the barrier to changing the oil. As I get older and creakier I find my Diesels are more and more grateful for the topsider than they might have been twenty years ago.

I use the hand pump type of of gadget because I found the rubber impellers in the electrically operated ones were not suited to synthetic oil (Delvac 1), or they were not suited to being thermally shocked. I never bothered to find out exactly which it was, although the manufacturer claimed the rubber was suitable for synthetic oil. Anyway, I stored the pump outside and, like Larry Bible says, I changed my oil hot. Maybe it is the thermal shock or maybe it is the oil, or both, but I found the rubber impellers worked for less than five oil changes. After the second impeller I threw the thing out and went back to the hand pump variety. The big 5 gallon container on the electric unit I had was its major convenience. That, and you could reverse the pump direction and pump the stuff back out. But changing the impeller mid-oil change in the freezing cold was not acceptable.

In reality both methods are acceptable. I am a permanent user of the topsider method because it makes it impossible to skip or delay an oil change with a clear conscience. I am also a dedicated user of Delvac 1. If getting that last drop of oil out to make sure you get all the goop out is really important, I would highly recommend this stuff. Changed hot, Delvac 1 definitely does not leave much junk in there changed either way. I am not sure this is the case with a lesser oil. Jim
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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