Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion > Alternative Fuels

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-04-2004, 11:18 AM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
WVO Fuel Heaters

I'm about to install danalinscott's home-grown design fuel heaters in my wagon and sedan and am wondering: who else out there is running his heater or some variation thereof?

I have some questions for you pioneers...

1) Have you experienced any polymerization of the oil, and subsequent clogging where the oil is actually in contact with the heater?

2) Have the thermostats proven reliable? Any problems with their attachment methods?

3) Are you using a 'boost' pump to move the viscous oil from the tank to the heater? If so, what brand?

Other:
Right now, I'm thinking that I'll install an electric boost pump (approx 5gpm) near the tank's outlet and push the oil through a low temp (120F) heater to the front of the car. In the engine compartment, I'll install the 170F heater. The idea here being that an electric boost pump will be able to handle thickened oil better than the IP's lift pump. The first heater should reduce or eliminate any possibility of clouding between the tank and the IP. The second heater will bring the oil up to proper temp for the IP to meter and inject correctly. If I run into problems with the oil cooling excessively on the return to the tank, I can always insulate the tubing or, add another heater to the return line.

Insight or comments anyone?
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-04-2004, 12:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 596
Couple comments. First, I don't think you need a 5 gallon per minute pump at the tank. You could probably get by with something in the 1 gallon per minute range. Second, I would include a filter between the last heater and the IP. The idea being if for some reason you did get any buildup on the element and it suddenly let go, you wouldn't be dumping crud directly into the IP. I am pretty sure Dana used to recommend this, but maybe subsequent testing has shown him it isn't necessary. Something you may want to ask him.
__________________
Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-04-2004, 12:35 PM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero
I don't think you need a 5 gallon per minute pump at the tank.
5gpm is the smallest fuel-rated, 12VDC pump I've been able to come across so far. Any suggestions?
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-04-2004, 02:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 596
A lot of us use the little facet pumps. They come in several sizes. The usual one stocked in most napa stores is rated at 35 gph, but they have at least three others rated from 25 gph all the way to 45 gph. Pressure ratings are 1-3 psi for the lowest up 7-9 psi. The part numbers are 6101049, 50, 51, and 52. I use the stock lift pump on my Mercedes, but I have a facet online for when the veggie filter starts getting plugged. I have also had one of these little pumps pluggin away on my veggie furnace for 1 and a half seasons and it just keeps going. For that application it is mostly unfiltered oil as well, so these are tough little pumps.

On edit, I had a link posted, but for some reason it was dead so just go to napaonline.com and do a search for the above part numbers.
__________________
Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-04-2004, 03:06 PM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Thanx for the pointer!

R
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-04-2004, 03:22 PM
TwitchKitty's Avatar
Just fix it
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Varies
Posts: 3,322
I have installed an electric pump back by the fuel tank. I took it off of an old pickup truck and don't have any specs on it. I only use it on cool mornings and when the filters are getting sluggish.

I am planning a fuel heater but have not finalized any plans. I have not seen the DanaLinscott plans. I want to keep it as simple as possible, a minimalistic approach. I am favoring the idea of using a glow plug in a T-fitting in a fuel line.

I will blend WVO with diesel and regular unleaded gasoline as needed in cold weather to compensate for the temperature.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:02 PM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,357
Exclamation fire hazard

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwitchKitty
I have installed an electric pump back by the fuel tank. I took it off of an old pickup truck and don't have any specs on it. I only use it on cool mornings and when the filters are getting sluggish.
I am planning a fuel heater but have not finalized any plans. I have not seen the DanaLinscott plans. I want to keep it as simple as possible, a minimalistic approach. I am favoring the idea of using a glow plug in a T-fitting in a fuel line.
I will blend WVO with diesel and regular unleaded gasoline as needed in cold weather to compensate for the temperature.
The glow plug heats to 1200F, a little hotter than you want in a fuel line.
Toast is what you would have..
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:07 PM
Old300D's Avatar
Biodiesel Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by whunter
The glow plug heats to 1200F, a little hotter than you want in a fuel line.
Toast is what you would have..
No, that's what the temperature would reach in air, with no flow. In oil, with flow, it heats the oil just fine, and keeps the plug tip temperature down. Ask me how I know.
__________________
'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:20 PM
TwitchKitty's Avatar
Just fix it
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Varies
Posts: 3,322
The possibility of overheating the fuel heater (glow plug in fuel) certainly does seem worthy of consideration. Fire under the hood is not an option. I have seen posts somewhere that mentioned different schemes to prevent overheating. I will need a relay to switch the fuel heater and that relay should be energized by a circuit that is powered only when the engine is starting or running. Any suggestions for which circuit to use? The glow plug circuit could be used during starting but would not work while running.

Maybe I need two parallel power circuits with two relays. One would be energized with the glow plugs and one while the engine is running. Need to keep it simple, also need to keep it safe.

Last edited by TwitchKitty; 10-04-2004 at 05:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:28 PM
TwitchKitty's Avatar
Just fix it
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Varies
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old300D
No, that's what the temperature would reach in air, with no flow. In oil, with flow, it heats the oil just fine, and keeps the plug tip temperature down. Ask me how I know.
How do you know?

Is your fuel heater manually switched or interconnected?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:39 PM
Old300D's Avatar
Biodiesel Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwitchKitty
How do you know?

Is your fuel heater manually switched or interconnected?
I run one constantly. I've not plugged a filter over several hundred gallons of WVO burned. When the heat is conducted off the tip of the plug, you will not overheat the oil. Just maintain some oil flow past the glow plug.

My heater is manually switched, and I've left it on while idling in stop and go traffic, and aside from getting the oil temperature over 200F, there were no consequences.
__________________
'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:43 PM
R Leo's Avatar
Stella!
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: En te l'eau Rant
Posts: 5,393
Quote:
The glow plug heats to 1200F, a little hotter than you want in a fuel line.
Toast is what you would have..
FWIW, danalinscott sells comprehensive plans for building these heaters from over-the-counter parts. They are thermostatically controlled to maintain a temp from 140F to 170F.

Old300, have you pulled your heaters apart to see if they're gunking up?
__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-04-2004, 05:53 PM
Old300D's Avatar
Biodiesel Fiend
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Leo
FWIW, danalinscott sells comprehensive plans for building these heaters from over-the-counter parts. They are thermostatically controlled to maintain a temp from 140F to 170F.

Old300, have you pulled your heaters apart to see if they're gunking up?
No, but I will be soon. I just got my 240D working, and retired the 300D. When I transfer the WVO gear over, I have some leak fixing to do, so everything will be taken apart and inspected. I'll post the results when I do.
__________________
'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88
'01 VW Beetle TDI
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD
'89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T
'78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110
Oil Burner Kartel #35

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-05-2004, 12:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wakefield, RI
Posts: 2,145
Can someone tell me any more about the electric pumps? Do they need a regulator? Return line? I remember reading that some use a Holley blue pump with a regulator. Thing is I think the Holley will overheat if it deadheads without a regulator and return line. Thanks, RT
__________________
When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-05-2004, 12:38 AM
coachgeo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: TX between Dallas and OK
Posts: 1,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwthomas1
Can someone tell me any more about the electric pumps? Do they need a regulator? Return line? I remember reading that some use a Holley blue pump with a regulator. Thing is I think the Holley will overheat if it deadheads without a regulator and return line. Thanks, RT
Habanero posted the napa part numbers for pumps just up a few post. He and many others use them as "booste" pumps to supliment the OEM pump. No regulator needed. No return line. At Autozone etc. they go by the name Faucet-Purlator, or is that Purlator-Faucet. Anyway.. they are the same thing. #'s may even be the same. I think they are cheaper at one of these two places than from Napa.
__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro


The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page