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  #1  
Old 11-20-2004, 11:19 AM
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MB Nixes Biodiesel

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About Bio Diesel, a few weeks ago Mercedes forbade the use of Bio Diesels in their new cars in Germany
Saw this on another site. Anyone heard anything about this?
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2004, 12:25 PM
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I doubt they made anything 'verbotten', but companies do certify their engines for different blend levels. In europe most diesel is already a B2 or B5 blend since it is low sulfur and needs something for lubricity.

There are some questions about B100's suitability in common-rail diesel injection systems, and they might just be taking the cautious road. Here in the US warranty issues are a bit vague. I believe there is some legal quandry when it comes to someone using a fuel that isn't 'approved by the manual' but is an ASTM certified alternative fuel..

I'd love to see more info on MB's stance, but I'm not surprised that they'd take a conservative stance right now, even while Jeep Liberty TDIs will be shipping with B5 in the tanks.

peace,
sam
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2004, 03:55 PM
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Possibly an issue with particles in the mix. Maybe bacteria/fungus growth too.

If you're the manufacturer, you look for things to state "void the warranty".

Run non-MB anti-freeze, void the warranty. etc etc.

Have to admit, if I had a new 2005 CDI, I wouldn't be putting Burger King grease in it.

Ken300D
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2004, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken300D
Possibly an issue with particles in the mix. Maybe bacteria/fungus growth too.

If you're the manufacturer, you look for things to state "void the warranty".

Run non-MB anti-freeze, void the warranty. etc etc.

Have to admit, if I had a new 2005 CDI, I wouldn't be putting Burger King grease in it.
No guarantees that 'saudi sludge' would be any better.. You all know what fuel quality is like in this country sometimes... I wouldn't run WVO in a new CDI, but I'd cautiously and carefully run fuel that I knew to be ASTM spec, even if it originally came from recycled oil.

Voiding the warranty is a tricky thing.. I know there have been legal battles over what sorts of things a car company can legally 'void your warranty' over, and fuel isn't usually one of them. I suppose time will tell how the CDIs deal with our methyl ester buddies...

peace,
sam
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2004, 04:15 PM
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Here's what you're probably referring too:

"Mercedes-Benz
Mercedes-Benz does not warrant its diesel engines (apart from a very small number of units fitted in German taxis) for biodiesel/RME use."

http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/faq/biofuels/biofuels-9.html

Problem is..., EU is already at b2 and going towards b5 and better. Germany is trying to out-do France in regards to biodiesel production output. Many stations in France sell B20. I suspect most people regularly use RME fuel at some percent anyway. As stated above, it's just another way to claim warrantee void.

Biodiesel is FAR from Burger King grease BTW, most in EU is from virgin oilseed stock (Rapeseed/Canola, hence the RME - Rapeseed Methyl Esters.)

Meant to add this:

"Country music legend Willie Nelson powers his new 2005 Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI with B100 biodiesel, and his wife Annie has used B100 in her Volkswagen Jetta TDI wagon for over a year. "I am absolutely a fan of biodiesel," Nelson said. "I use it in my car because I'm a firm believer in using renewable fuels that are better for our environment. We should all be doing our part to reduce our reliance on foreign oil and contribute to our own economy. On top of all that, biodiesel use helps our nation's family farmers, while preserving the land for future generations."
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Old 11-20-2004, 07:47 PM
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Technically, the state of MN mandates a certain percentage of biodiesel content, however [last I heard] the state lacks the production capacity to comply.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see more usage of biodiesel here in the US. We've got a lot of idle farmland in MN and ND that could be put to use growing soybeans, and maybe we could put a dent in our reliance on Saudi oil...

- Patrick
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2004, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickW
Technically, the state of MN mandates a certain percentage of biodiesel content, however [last I heard] the state lacks the production capacity to comply.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see more usage of biodiesel here in the US. We've got a lot of idle farmland in MN and ND that could be put to use growing soybeans, and maybe we could put a dent in our reliance on Saudi oil...

- Patrick
MN has a 2% mandate. Didn't know they were having trouble meeting demand?

Sentiments are agreed on use.

As far as feedstock though, ANYTHING is better for yield than soy. Just that the soy farmers got together and found an alternative use for their product.

Some #'s: Soy=60gal/acre, Canola=120gal/acre, Oil Palm=600gal/acre, algae=16-20,000gal/acre.

So..., if you're willing to grow an algae farm on a few acres, you're in the $'s!!!
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Last edited by TomJ; 11-21-2004 at 05:54 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2004, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
Some #'s: Soy=60gal/acre, Canola=120gal/acre, Oil Palm=600gal/acre, algae=16-20,000gal/acre.

So..., if you're willing to grow and algae farm on a few acres, you're in the $'s!!!
Wow. Those are some amazing numbers regarding algae. Maybe there's a future in that.

- Patrick
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2004, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
MN has a 2% mandate. Didn't know they were having trouble meeting demand?

Sentiments are agreed on use.

As far as feedstock though, ANYTHING is better for yield than soy. Just that the soy farmers got together and found an alternative use for their product.

Some #'s: Soy=60gal/acre, Canola=120gal/acre, Oil Palm=600gal/acre, algae=16-20,000gal/acre.

So..., if you're willing to grow an algae farm on a few acres, you're in the $'s!!!
Gotta link to where you got those numbers? Seems like I have seen something like that but can't keep track of all of this info. A plantation based on fish farming and biodiesel production could be a go.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2004, 06:44 PM
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Here is a link to a list of common agricultural items and their oil yield per acre:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

It doesn't list algae, because algae oil production is still experimental, and those high numbers are still theoretical, I don't think anyone is doing large scale algae oil collection yet. However, everything I've heard so far suggests that it could be a great alternative.

peace,
sam
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