Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion > Alternative Fuels

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-20-2004, 11:19 AM
coachgeo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern OH
Posts: 1,800
MB Nixes Biodiesel

Quote:
About Bio Diesel, a few weeks ago Mercedes forbade the use of Bio Diesels in their new cars in Germany
Saw this on another site. Anyone heard anything about this?

__________________
"If anyone knows other lessons I need to learn, please tell me. I'm tired of learning them the hard way".
by JerryBro


The Glow Plug Wait: This waiting period is a moment of silence to pay honor to Rudolph Diesel. The longer you own your diesel the more honor you will give him". by SD Blue

My normal daily life; either SNAFUed- Situation Normal... All Fouled Up, or FUBARed- Fouled Up Beyond All Repair

62 UNIMOG Camper w/617 Turbo, 85 300SD daily driver- both powered by blended UCO fuels
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-20-2004, 12:25 PM
phidauex's Avatar
BioDiesel Hopeful
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 806
I doubt they made anything 'verbotten', but companies do certify their engines for different blend levels. In europe most diesel is already a B2 or B5 blend since it is low sulfur and needs something for lubricity.

There are some questions about B100's suitability in common-rail diesel injection systems, and they might just be taking the cautious road. Here in the US warranty issues are a bit vague. I believe there is some legal quandry when it comes to someone using a fuel that isn't 'approved by the manual' but is an ASTM certified alternative fuel..

I'd love to see more info on MB's stance, but I'm not surprised that they'd take a conservative stance right now, even while Jeep Liberty TDIs will be shipping with B5 in the tanks.

peace,
sam
__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2004, 03:55 PM
Registered Diesel Burner
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,911
Possibly an issue with particles in the mix. Maybe bacteria/fungus growth too.

If you're the manufacturer, you look for things to state "void the warranty".

Run non-MB anti-freeze, void the warranty. etc etc.

Have to admit, if I had a new 2005 CDI, I wouldn't be putting Burger King grease in it.

Ken300D
__________________
--------------------------
1982 300D at 351K miles
1984 300SD at 217K miles
1987 300D at 370K miles
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-20-2004, 04:14 PM
phidauex's Avatar
BioDiesel Hopeful
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken300D
Possibly an issue with particles in the mix. Maybe bacteria/fungus growth too.

If you're the manufacturer, you look for things to state "void the warranty".

Run non-MB anti-freeze, void the warranty. etc etc.

Have to admit, if I had a new 2005 CDI, I wouldn't be putting Burger King grease in it.
No guarantees that 'saudi sludge' would be any better.. You all know what fuel quality is like in this country sometimes... I wouldn't run WVO in a new CDI, but I'd cautiously and carefully run fuel that I knew to be ASTM spec, even if it originally came from recycled oil.

Voiding the warranty is a tricky thing.. I know there have been legal battles over what sorts of things a car company can legally 'void your warranty' over, and fuel isn't usually one of them. I suppose time will tell how the CDIs deal with our methyl ester buddies...

peace,
sam
__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-20-2004, 04:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Back in Colorado for now
Posts: 1,315
Here's what you're probably referring too:

"Mercedes-Benz
Mercedes-Benz does not warrant its diesel engines (apart from a very small number of units fitted in German taxis) for biodiesel/RME use."

http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/faq/biofuels/biofuels-9.html

Problem is..., EU is already at b2 and going towards b5 and better. Germany is trying to out-do France in regards to biodiesel production output. Many stations in France sell B20. I suspect most people regularly use RME fuel at some percent anyway. As stated above, it's just another way to claim warrantee void.

Biodiesel is FAR from Burger King grease BTW, most in EU is from virgin oilseed stock (Rapeseed/Canola, hence the RME - Rapeseed Methyl Esters.)

Meant to add this:

"Country music legend Willie Nelson powers his new 2005 Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI with B100 biodiesel, and his wife Annie has used B100 in her Volkswagen Jetta TDI wagon for over a year. "I am absolutely a fan of biodiesel," Nelson said. "I use it in my car because I'm a firm believer in using renewable fuels that are better for our environment. We should all be doing our part to reduce our reliance on foreign oil and contribute to our own economy. On top of all that, biodiesel use helps our nation's family farmers, while preserving the land for future generations."
__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


=========================

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-20-2004, 07:47 PM
PatrickW's Avatar
123.123 616.912
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 349
Technically, the state of MN mandates a certain percentage of biodiesel content, however [last I heard] the state lacks the production capacity to comply.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see more usage of biodiesel here in the US. We've got a lot of idle farmland in MN and ND that could be put to use growing soybeans, and maybe we could put a dent in our reliance on Saudi oil...

- Patrick
__________________
1982 240D. 198k, Marine Blue/Blue, 4 Speed, Crank Windows, No Sunroof, No Rust, No Oil Leaks
2001 TDI. 197k, Lagoon Blue/Black, 5 speed, Chip, G60/VR6
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-21-2004, 12:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Back in Colorado for now
Posts: 1,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickW
Technically, the state of MN mandates a certain percentage of biodiesel content, however [last I heard] the state lacks the production capacity to comply.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see more usage of biodiesel here in the US. We've got a lot of idle farmland in MN and ND that could be put to use growing soybeans, and maybe we could put a dent in our reliance on Saudi oil...

- Patrick
MN has a 2% mandate. Didn't know they were having trouble meeting demand?

Sentiments are agreed on use.

As far as feedstock though, ANYTHING is better for yield than soy. Just that the soy farmers got together and found an alternative use for their product.

Some #'s: Soy=60gal/acre, Canola=120gal/acre, Oil Palm=600gal/acre, algae=16-20,000gal/acre.

So..., if you're willing to grow an algae farm on a few acres, you're in the $'s!!!
__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 4-speed manual conversion, mid-level resto

1983 300D - parts car

1979 300TD Auto - Parts car.

1985 300D Auto - Wrecked/Parts.


=========================

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there". Lewis Carrol

Last edited by TomJ; 11-21-2004 at 05:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-21-2004, 05:23 PM
PatrickW's Avatar
123.123 616.912
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
Some #'s: Soy=60gal/acre, Canola=120gal/acre, Oil Palm=600gal/acre, algae=16-20,000gal/acre.

So..., if you're willing to grow and algae farm on a few acres, you're in the $'s!!!
Wow. Those are some amazing numbers regarding algae. Maybe there's a future in that.

- Patrick
__________________
1982 240D. 198k, Marine Blue/Blue, 4 Speed, Crank Windows, No Sunroof, No Rust, No Oil Leaks
2001 TDI. 197k, Lagoon Blue/Black, 5 speed, Chip, G60/VR6
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-21-2004, 06:10 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Varies
Posts: 4,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJ
MN has a 2% mandate. Didn't know they were having trouble meeting demand?

Sentiments are agreed on use.

As far as feedstock though, ANYTHING is better for yield than soy. Just that the soy farmers got together and found an alternative use for their product.

Some #'s: Soy=60gal/acre, Canola=120gal/acre, Oil Palm=600gal/acre, algae=16-20,000gal/acre.

So..., if you're willing to grow an algae farm on a few acres, you're in the $'s!!!
Gotta link to where you got those numbers? Seems like I have seen something like that but can't keep track of all of this info. A plantation based on fish farming and biodiesel production could be a go.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-21-2004, 06:44 PM
phidauex's Avatar
BioDiesel Hopeful
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 806
Here is a link to a list of common agricultural items and their oil yield per acre:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html

It doesn't list algae, because algae oil production is still experimental, and those high numbers are still theoretical, I don't think anyone is doing large scale algae oil collection yet. However, everything I've heard so far suggests that it could be a great alternative.

peace,
sam

__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page