How much do you pay for biodiesel? - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #76 01-25-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaWagon

What planet are you living on? Every new car sold in the world today (and for the past 10 years, practically) is fuel injected. Nobody misses the carburetor.

And many of you are ignoring the fact that virtually all the freight and consumer goods in this country moves or is produced because of diesel. Sure, diesel cars are a tiny percent of the gas cars in the U.S. and tiny compared to the diesel car fleet in Europe and elsewhere. But everything we eat and everything we buy exists because of diesel. All the farm equipment, trucks and trains run on diesel. Most of the imported goods sold in the U.S. arrive on diesel ships. New neighborhoods get built with diesel graders and bulldozers.

So when we talk about switching today's diesel fuel to a biodiesel blend or an ultra-low sulfur variety, we're not just talking about cars. There's a huge fleet of diesel machines out there, and switching them to a cleaner fuel is essential. Even the Bush administration recognizes that.

I think he was being sarcastic.

I was saying that diesel cars are not in high demand here. As such, biodiesel will creep but real slow. What I was trying to say was that we, as a group, automobile drivers, cannot really make a dent in anything, really. Gas stations that sell diesel are mainly truck stops and not the regular gas stations. I suppose that if you really wanted, you might have to fuel up at a station that sells biodiesel blends which might be quite far away. In any case, we, as automobile drivers, cannot really make a difference.

Yes, switching everyone to the real low sulfur stuff is going to pose some problems because, if what I am reading is correct, the lubricity will be gone. I suppose, the gas companies might have to start puting in some additives.

aklim · #77 01-25-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeynut

aklim,

sorry, I didn't notice the second question you had. I would suggest talking to someone at a Cenex station - they may or may not know who to contact to find out if any local stations are selling bio. There is a large Cenex station in Middleton that sells a lot of diesel. It is near Greenway Plaza. University Ave - after it ends it turns into Hwy 14. Turn left at the second light after you go under the beltway heading towards Spring Green. The Cenex about a block in from the intersection. I have no idea if they are selling bio, but hopefully they would know who you could contact.

They sell both Biodiesel and Diesel. No sale because of winter weather. They can fill it up but no pumps. They have B2. It goes for $1.69 a gal. FARM USE ONLY. They don't know if they are going with B2 or B5 or if it will even be at the pump. March or April. Fuel Manager's name is LADD. (608) 831-5921

biodieselkid · #78 01-29-2005, 01:29 PM

I havent replied since last weekend as I work weekends for a big corporation and well, I pretty much work about 1 hour in an 9 hour day, so I do this and shop on ebay the rest of the time. Ah the irony so sweet yet so putrid. So getting back to the points raised-nothing like the freedom of giving up, "we as consumers cannot make a difference", nobody likes a quitter, lest of all me. I assume correctly Im sure that none of the people who talk about large corporations have ever lived on or worked on a farm, somehow, over the last 50 years the farmer has gotten less and less money the middlemen(corporations) more and more, farmers go outta biz, biz gets the profit,then they buy up the land and put in mega farms, farm the gov for subsidies, which is really farming the populace-me and you- and they take more of our money and rights(the current state of legislation/money it takes to buy politicians). Numbness is all good and fine for most of you, buy not for me, I will fight the evil empire and with everyone's help it can be defeated, but everyone would rather work their asses off for 50 years, die an early death, never see their children, lay their wives/husbands like once a month cause their to damn tired from working for the man or out buying the mans products. Guess what? we are the only country in the world that lives like this, except Japan maybe as well. More importantly, if you look at the numbers there is something like 3 billion gallons of waste veg oil generated every year, it goes to feed cattle after it is rendered, ps 30% of our country is obese so dont give me the argument that we would have to feed the cows something else, no we eat to damn many cows-I eat cows but at half the average of other americans, I also get laid 5 or 10 times a week in spite of the efforts of my toddlers interupting the wife and I. I also "work" in health care, and I see that the large corporations will take all of your money the last years of your life, unless you have the good fortune of not going to the doctor or hospital and dying in your own home, but the figures dont lie, 9/10 of us will die in a hospital, and guess what, your savings will drop by tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in spite of any insurance you may have cause guess what, evil corporations who own the insurance industry make record profits as your rights and their coverage declines-dont believe me, just read the fine print in your policy. But you dont read the fine print in your policy cause you dont have time to, much less give your spouse a good roll in the hay or play with your kids cause your too damn tired after giving your life to the man to make money for that jackass, so you can die young and wasted, and own a part of the American dream(lie), hey, hey hey, Im on a roll, so I must quit whilst Im ahead, so yeah you are right, none of us can make any difference, lets all just give up and take it like men, oOOOOh I love to be someones beootch , WRONG, you can NOT ME, Im going native and the corporations can kiss my ass, with any luck Ill be taking my billion gallons of waste veg oil and telling the Saudis and the Bush Crime Family to lick my sac, Im helping the little guy, Amen, Shalom, Blessed Be, Amen, and may the Jews never show me the 4th sign of the Apocolypse by sacrificing a pure red cow in the Temple of Jerusalem, which now houses the Dome of the Rock,

83-240D · #79 01-29-2005, 02:26 PM

i talked to a fella the other day who is trying to be a distributor of bio d. when the question came up about the buck discount he said it went to the blender and there would be no way to know if the blender then charged the full price anyway. he also said the irs is still wrestling about how to implement the penny per percent rule. until that happens the price will be higher than it needes to be but i called around denver to the places selling blue sun fuel and one fo them was at 2.12/gal. the others were at 2.30 something all for b20.

one of the other things killing bio is the fact that dino can be transported underground. thats right there are transposrt pipes under the usa. over 50,000 miles of them according to a guy from bp. it works like the railroad opening and closing switches to get the oil where it needs to go. almost no transport cost vs bio.

girl mark, on her localb100 site has, in the last paragraph, the name of a company who builds processor systems that can do 150 gal a day. these cost 50 grand. okay that is not many cars but it should work while the demand is small. just call ahead and make a fuel appointment just like a hair appointment.

aklim · #80 01-29-2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biodieselkid

I havent replied since last weekend as I work weekends for a big corporation and well, I pretty much work about 1 hour in an 9 hour day, so I do this and shop on ebay the rest of the time. Ah the irony so sweet yet so putrid. So getting back to the points raised-nothing like the freedom of giving up, "we as consumers cannot make a difference", nobody likes a quitter, lest of all me. I assume correctly Im sure that none of the people who talk about large corporations have ever lived on or worked on a farm, somehow, over the last 50 years the farmer has gotten less and less money the middlemen(corporations) more and more, farmers go outta biz, biz gets the profit,then they buy up the land and put in mega farms, farm the gov for subsidies, which is really farming the populace-me and you- and they take more of our money and rights(the current state of legislation/money it takes to buy politicians). Numbness is all good and fine for most of you, buy not for me, I will fight the evil empire and with everyone's help it can be defeated, but everyone would rather work their asses off for 50 years, die an early death, never see their children, lay their wives/husbands like once a month cause their to damn tired from working for the man or out buying the mans products. Guess what? we are the only country in the world that lives like this, except Japan maybe as well. More importantly, if you look at the numbers there is something like 3 billion gallons of waste veg oil generated every year, it goes to feed cattle after it is rendered, ps 30% of our country is obese so dont give me the argument that we would have to feed the cows something else, no we eat to damn many cows-I eat cows but at half the average of other americans, I also get laid 5 or 10 times a week in spite of the efforts of my toddlers interupting the wife and I. I also "work" in health care, and I see that the large corporations will take all of your money the last years of your life, unless you have the good fortune of not going to the doctor or hospital and dying in your own home, but the figures dont lie, 9/10 of us will die in a hospital, and guess what, your savings will drop by tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in spite of any insurance you may have cause guess what, evil corporations who own the insurance industry make record profits as your rights and their coverage declines-dont believe me, just read the fine print in your policy. But you dont read the fine print in your policy cause you dont have time to, much less give your spouse a good roll in the hay or play with your kids cause your too damn tired after giving your life to the man to make money for that jackass, so you can die young and wasted, and own a part of the American dream(lie), hey, hey hey, Im on a roll, so I must quit whilst Im ahead, so yeah you are right, none of us can make any difference, lets all just give up and take it like men, oOOOOh I love to be someones beootch , WRONG, you can NOT ME, Im going native and the corporations can kiss my ass, with any luck Ill be taking my billion gallons of waste veg oil and telling the Saudis and the Bush Crime Family to lick my sac, Im helping the little guy, Amen, Shalom, Blessed Be, Amen, and may the Jews never show me the 4th sign of the Apocolypse by sacrificing a pure red cow in the Temple of Jerusalem, which now houses the Dome of the Rock,

We can make a difference. However, "can" and "will" are 2 entirely different things. If enough people "will" make the difference, it will be done. However, I doubt you will be able to enlist enough people to make that difference. I would be glad to use WVO if you were to ensure that I can get it when needed, at the price that is competitive, appropriate gel point etc, etc. IOW, is it a true alternative to regular diesel or one that I have to jump thru 1000 hoops to get at? If it were as simple as using one pump or the other, you would have many more people going with it.

BTW, check your sources. Most of our oil is South American not Saudi. So, you want to help the little guy? Like Sam Walton maybe? How about that little shop in Minneapolis that used to be called "Sound of Music"? Oh, sorry. They grew up. Sam Walton's little store became Wal*Mart and "Sound of Music" became Best Buy. So, what has the little guy done for us? Or what will he do for us that the big corps won't? Will he stock 10000 items so I can get most of my shopping done at one stop? Will he have the competitive prices? Will you get the stuff I need from all the stops necessary for me to bypass the mega store?

There is no free lunch. Biodiesel has it's issues too. So far, it doesn;t give better mpg at all. Also, all we really need is B2. 2%. Even if we did add it to the regular diesel, how much of a dent would it make in terms of prices? I guess the question is "Who will make up the difference?"

Edit: if we all went to Biodiesel instead of regular diesel, how will that affect the gasoline production and the oil by-products?

biodieselkid · #81 01-29-2005, 03:36 PM

We get 17% from Saudi, 18% inhouse, 18%Canadian, 15 African, 20%Mexico and Venezuela, and the rest from Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, if you can trust National Geographics numbers. Anyhow, all of the issues you raised are correct, except for one. One big issue is that the big box retailers are a function of overcomsuption, the question is not do these places have all this junk, the question is who needs this junk, not me, if you do , fine, me no judge, but I feel that all of these big boxes are part of the lifestyles the majority of Americans have choose, not good choices, just look at the war we are at, its all about consumption. My grandfather had a subsistence farm, probably spent no more than 2000/year on outside products, plus travel, he loved to travel, in todays dollars, he would have spent probably 20/week if he would have known about WVO. Anyhow, that dude made an impression on me, his farm was in NW Montana , not great farmland, but easily done, anyhow, he lived to be 90, and that was smoking for 50 pack-years, and chewing too, hell he had a history of diabetes in his family, but his quality of life was pretty cool, hell he meditated when he got bored, that was before any of the yuppies knew what meditated was, anyhow, its all good, but by in large us americans are just a bunch of fat, lazy, pussies, who dont know how to live, peace, jimmy

aklim · #82 01-29-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biodieselkid

We get 17% from Saudi, 18% inhouse, 18%Canadian, 15 African, 20%Mexico and Venezuela, and the rest from Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, if you can trust National Geographics numbers. Anyhow, all of the issues you raised are correct, except for one. One big issue is that the big box retailers are a function of overcomsuption, the question is not do these places have all this junk, the question is who needs this junk, not me, if you do , fine, me no judge, but I feel that all of these big boxes are part of the lifestyles the majority of Americans have choose, not good choices, just look at the war we are at, its all about consumption. My grandfather had a subsistence farm, probably spent no more than 2000/year on outside products, plus travel, he loved to travel, in todays dollars, he would have spent probably 20/week if he would have known about WVO. Anyhow, that dude made an impression on me, his farm was in NW Montana , not great farmland, but easily done, anyhow, he lived to be 90, and that was smoking for 50 pack-years, and chewing too, hell he had a history of diabetes in his family, but his quality of life was pretty cool, hell he meditated when he got bored, that was before any of the yuppies knew what meditated was, anyhow, its all good, but by in large us americans are just a bunch of fat, lazy, pussies, who dont know how to live, peace, jimmy

That depends on your defination of "live". I know a guy that poaches. However, he does live off the land so everything he catches, traps or shoots, he eats. He lives in a house that has most of it taped off because it is rotting wood you would be standing on. His source of running water is the stream. Lately, he is living the high life. He snaked an extension cord and has a water hose. Is he happy? Yes. He works when he needs supplies he cannot get. Would I want to lead that kind of life? Not a chance. Does that make me a pussy? I don't think so. IMO, this is like having to move 100# of weight. Do you want to move it as a 100# weight or 10 pieces at 10# or 100 pieces at 1#. Either way youa re still moving 100#. No one way is better than the other.

To answer your question of "who needs this junk", I think that America has spoken. BTW, other countries are just as bad. They have their own idiosyncracise (sp) but it is done in different way. We are just portrayed as the bad guys because we are rich. Other countries also do try bully other countries into doing this, that or the other. However, no one gets as much attention as we do. All evil is not rooted in the biggest entities. It just seems that way to others who would gladly do the same evil.

Legal Eagle · #83 01-29-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Californian

There is a guy locally who sells SVO for $1 a gallon per 55 gallon drum. Probably off-spec oil from an oil distributor. How involved is it to convert it to Bio Diesel ?

If you can get SVO for $1/gal convert your car to a two tank system and run the SVO direct. Greasel.com can do it in a day. Should you still want to produce biodiesel from it so you can the seperate the glycerine layer into components or simply make glycerine soap from the by-product you can learn the whol eprocess at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html With SVO you are at an advantage. The variables are always the same so it is a matter of mix the methanol into it and go.Settle, dr4ain the glycerine, wash the fuel to remove the excess risidual of methanol and catalyst (sodium or potassium hydroxide) and once properly washed settle a bit longer to be sure there is no water left in it, fliter and use. No modifications to the engine are required.
Luc

WannaWagon · #84 01-29-2005, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Californian

There is a guy locally who sells SVO for $1 a gallon per 55 gallon drum. Probably off-spec oil from an oil distributor. How involved is it to convert it to Bio Diesel ?

Where are you located? I'd like to score some of that goo for myself. I'm in the Sacramento area.

Californian · #85 02-03-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WannaWagon

Where are you located? I'd like to score some of that goo for myself. I'm in the Sacramento area.

I live in SF but I travel back and forth between North and South very often.

Sorry the guy said he doesn't do it anymore. He is now delivering only Bio-Diesel he made from WVO. His name is Kenneth Kron, major player in this Bio-fuel movement. He is in Berkeley and his plant is in Richmond.

phidauex · #86 02-03-2005, 03:58 PM

Regarding transportation: Biodiesel can be transported in all the ways that regular diesel can, so if it isn't being pipelined right now, its just because the companies haven't chosen to do so, not because it can't be done.

Regarding needing only 2% BD, it depends on what your definition of 'need' is. If you are managing a fleet of school buses and the particulate exhaust is putting huge quantities of poison into the lungs of your students, and you are now being required by law to lower your PM emissions by 50%, then biodiesel might be your cheapest solution! A little extra per gallon for BD is cheap compared to the thousands to convert to CNG or millions to buy hybrid buses. You as Joe Consumer have a different concept of need. (PS this school bus issue is actually occuring like this in a few communities). Remember that our 300Ds are not the main diesel consumer in this country, its the commercial sector that is using the most diesel, and is under the most pressure to clean up their acts. They need solutions, and biodiesel is a cost effective solution for many businesses.

I think a lot of other issues are being brought up here that don't really relate to biodiesel... The walmart discussion is something that doesn't really belong here, since it doesn't have anything to do with diesels, and as much as I'd like to dive in, I don't want this to become the mini-open-discussion.

peace,
sam

hockeynut · #87 02-03-2005, 05:43 PM

I guess we can assume "biodieselkid" didn't vote for W

Dude, go meditate for a while, you're too worked up

What was that quote of Churchill's? "If you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If your old and not a conservative, you have no brain"
Something like that

Pete Burton · #88 02-03-2005, 11:45 PM

I recently paid the princely sum of $25 for a 5 gallon pail of B100. oops, sorry, that's a little too on topic for this thread

aklim · #89 02-03-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Burton

I recently paid the princely sum of $25 for a 5 gallon pail of B100. oops, sorry, that's a little too on topic for this thread

$5 a gallon? Last time I checked it was about $3.25 a gallon here. If you want to buy enough, I'm sure you could make it worth your while to have it shipped to you from here. (Lake Geneva area)

As far as I can see, B5 is probably as much as we really would need to help our engines. Currently B2 seems to be sufficient and when we go to even lower sulfur levels, B5 would still be more than needed. Unless there is a great price reduction, why would we want to pay more.

hockeynut · #90 02-04-2005, 10:57 AM

Aklim,
I spoke with the fuel guy at the Cenex in Middleton. I had quite a discussion with him regarding biodiesel. He is not entirely sure yet if he will offer it in the spring for road use. It will either be 2% or 5% - 5% is the max the Cenex refinery can inject into the diesel lines at this time while pumping the fuel into the tankers. Hopefully he'll decide to go with it.

I also discussed his "premium" diesel - he seemed knowledgable and confident of it's quality. I filled up the Jetta there last week and broke 650 miles in a tank for the first time since winter blends started in November. I was very impressed with the mileage and the lack of smoke when starting. Just an FYI in case you're not happy with your current fuel.