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#16
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I doubt there will be catastrophic damage from this
Look at the ratios being advocated. The curve for diesel fuel on that graph peaks at about 0.3%. Having said that, look at the links below. They indicate that acetone IS harder on seals than gasoline and diesel fuel. At the low concentrations we are talking about here though, the potential for significant damage to your seals from a short-term trial is probably not great. Note that I am not volunteering my car as a guinea pig.
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Diesel%20Oil#mat http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Acetone http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SM=none&SC=Gasoline%2C%20Automative#mat I would wonder more about any changes in lubricty and how that would affect the life of my IP. I doubt the mileage claims as well. It's all too good to be true. It reminds me of the 200 mpg carburetor ads that you used to see back in the 80's. A simple way too test this without risking your engine would be to take 2 shallow dishes and add to each a carefully weighed amount of fuel. Add 0.3% of acetone to one dish and then set them both on a shelf. If the acetone works as advertised, the fuel with the acetone in it will evaporate more quickly. If this works, you should be able to see the effect by periodically weighing the dishes with an accurate balance. Acetone is more
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1985 300SD, 203,000 miles, dark blue Lil Sarah says: "Poor old Grandma Blue Car...She's sad." Last edited by RayG; 03-23-2005 at 09:41 AM. |
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A gallon of Acetone costs a littel more then two gallons of diesel if I remember correctly. (diesel@ $2.50)
I think I will keep feeding my $700 IP and $300 injectors regular diesel. But acetone is a solvent so I bet it washes the oil off the cylinder walls. Ch ching $$$ $7k for a rebuilt 603.
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1999 SL500 1969 280SE 2023 Ram 1500 2007 Tiara 3200 |
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Gotta love the "glass is half empty" crowd on this board.... Given the very small percentages recommended to be added, and the fact that acetone is relatively cheap, additional cost is of very little concern IF the mileage gains are as advertised. Regarding the "damage" the acetone may cause. The answer is, who knows? The anecdotal evidence is promising and no one has offered negative evidence that it will hurt anything. Chemist or not it is possible that no one has tried this combination before in these ratios as fuel for a internal combustion engine. How this particular combination reacts in a cumbustion chamber may be a complete unknown as well. Considering how most of us seem to be concerned about our evaporating natural resources, fuel costs, mpg, etc. that biodiesel and WVO are discussed here regularly I am suprised at the backlash to a idea. Oh well, go back to your "head in the sand, I'm gonna drive old MB's forever (not possible since they will all eventually rust away), NANANANANA! I'm not listening", worlds. I'm gonna try it in the truck and will report findings here. RT
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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops! 84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K 03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K 93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K |
#19
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Quote:
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'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88 '01 VW Beetle TDI '05 Jeep Liberty CRD '89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T '78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110 Oil Burner Kartel #35 http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg |
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I am a chemist and I think that article is very close to horse crap. First of all, where are the references? There are an awful lot of claims that have no scientific justification. You could just as easily write an article saying peeing in your gas tank improves your mileage and people would probably believe that as well. If you don't have to prove what you are saying is correct (through the use of references or better yet real scientific data), then you can say anything and make an argument to back it up.
And don't try to compare this with the WVO movement. As most of us know, the first "diesel" engines were fueled with vegetable oils. So it isn't really that much of a leap of faith to fuel a modern diesel engine on veg. oil. If you want to take the environmental route, from what I have read most acetone is currently produced from petrochemical feedstocks. There are fermentation pathways, but if you are going to go that route, why not produce ethanol which is already scientifically proven to be a suitable replacement for gasoline.
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Keep everything as simple as possible-but no simpler--Albert Einstein |
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Old300D,
You need a trip down to the Pearl Vision Center too SEE that the glass is half empty! Quote: In a 10-gallon tank of gasoline, use two to three ounces of pure acetone to obtain excellent mileage improvements. In a ten-gallon tank of diesel fuel, use from 1 to 2 ounces of acetone. Performance goes too. Use about a teaspoon of acetone in the fuel tank of a lawnmower or snowblower. That was cut-n-pasted right from the webpage.... Habanero, Going the environmentalist route is quite simple. Regardless of that fact that acetone is made from petroleum you are ignoring the fact that IF it increased mileage just from using very small quantities the overall result is LESS fuel used overall. Wouldn't that be a good thing? Maybe it is all BS but I can't fault them from trying and they aren't trying to sell me something either. RT
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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops! 84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K 03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K 93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K |
#22
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Hey rwthomas1
I for one will be interested in hearing what your experience is. I love to hear about miracle cures for problems as long as there is data to back up the claims. Hard, verifiable, repeatable data.
It probably won't hurt anything. If it does I will be first to volunteer to contribute a crisp new dollar bill toward the purchase of your new IP.
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1985 300SD, 203,000 miles, dark blue Lil Sarah says: "Poor old Grandma Blue Car...She's sad." |
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I don't see how a couple of ounces would hurt. My question is HOW can evaporating diesel faster result in more economy. The only way to get more economy is to use less fuel at the same speed. So, if I'm tooling down the road at 60, the only way to use less fuel is if I back off on the go-pedal. How can adding acetone allow me to do that? It would have to increase power at the same injection level and have the same power at a lower injection level. Doesn't add up to me.
But, I fillup every 4 days at the exact same place, and drive the same route with few differences so I'd be a good guinea pig (last fill up was 17.003 gallons at 509 miles = 29.9 mpg). I've got a gallon on my boat, maybe I'll stop by the marina and pick it up. Next fillup is Friday.
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1984 300Sd 210k Former cars: 1984 300D 445k (!!) (Strider) Original (and not rebuilt) engine and transmission. Currently running on V80 ( 80% vegetable oil, 20% petroleum products). Actually not, taking a WVO break. 1993 300d 2.5 275k. Current 120/day commuter 1981 300SD 188k (Hans) Killed by a deer |
#24
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Quote:
http://mbca.cartama.net/showthread.php?t=4886 Post 11
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
#25
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Danger! Beware!!
IF you used acetone, a magnetic ion gizmo, a tornado air stream gadget, super duper diesel additive, and slick 50 snot.............................
Your fuel tank might overflow while you are driving, eh? However, wouldn't pure snake oil burn in our diesels?
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You can get farther with a smile and a gun than you can with just a smile. 1984 300D 1985 300CD 1980 300SD 1993 SL500 |
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Quote:
Well, if you pee in the tank, it might cause the engine not to work right. In which case, if the tow truck tows it far enough, you have mileage without using fuel so your mpg will actuall go up. In 1892 Rudolf Diesel was issued a patent for a proposed engine that air would be compressed so much that the temperature would far exceed the ignition temperature of the fuel. Baron von Krupp and Machinenfabrik Augsburg Nurnberg Company in Germany backed Rudolf Diesel financially as well as providing engineers to work with him on the development of an engine that would burn coal dust, because there were mountains of useless coal dust piled up in the Ruhr valley. The first experimental engine was built in 1893 and used high pressure air to blast the coal dust into the combustion chamber. This engine exploded and further developments of using coal dust as a fuel failed, however a compression ignition engine that used oil as fuel was successful and a number of manufacturers were licensed to build similar engines. The original oil burning engines used very crude mechanical injection equipment so Rudolf Diesel again began using air blast to provide atomization of the fuel as well as turbulence of the mixture. This was very successful and utilized in Rudolf Diesel's third engine built in 1895. This engine was very similar to engines being used today. It was a four-stroke cycle with 450psi compression. Progress in diesel engine development has since depended on improvements in fuel injection technology. Just because that was what it was designed for 100 years ago doesn't mean that it is the same thing. I don't want to try powering my engine with coal dust either. I try avoid ethanol gas becasue somehow, the car doesn't see to run as well on ethanol even at 10% levels. The engine power doesn't seem to be quite there and the car seems less responsive, IMO.
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke 99 E300 Turbodiesel 91 Vette with 383 motor 05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI 06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red 03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow 04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler 11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow |
#27
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Quote:
Quote:
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'83 240D with 617.952 and 2.88 '01 VW Beetle TDI '05 Jeep Liberty CRD '89 Toyota 4x4, needs 2L-T '78 280Z with L28ET - 12.86@110 Oil Burner Kartel #35 http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...oD/bioclip.jpg |
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Don't think for one second our IP's are not lubed by fuel. Yes oil does run through them, but there are metal plungers inside. These plungers need fuel to keep them lubed and the tolerances(sp?) are very fine.
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1999 SL500 1969 280SE 2023 Ram 1500 2007 Tiara 3200 |
#29
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Quote:
I didn't reply to your first reply, yet I am compelled to do it with this one. If you look at the graph with the a, b, c, d curves and will read the foot note you will see that the D curve is for Diesel. According to the person who conducted the research it gained about 20% with 2 OZ of acetone to 10 Gallons of Diesel. This is a ratio of 1 to 655. I'm willing to try it out. |
#30
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Quote:
This concentration is so slight that any degradation of seals and plastic components would probably not be measurable. The risk of damage is minimal. |
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