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  #1  
Old 04-09-2005, 02:57 PM
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want to convert my 300td to wvo

I want to convert my 300td to run on waste veggie oil. I have been in contact with several makers of conversion kits, but am having difficulity choosing which one. Am looking for feedback from anyone with experence.
thanks
MIke
Moab, Ut
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2005, 03:10 PM
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I am planning to get my kit from www.greasecar.com

I like that system a lot and it is one of the only ones that I have found that includes the fuel tank. of course I am still researching too.

what kits are you looking at?
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2005, 03:46 PM
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check out frybrid.com and biofuels.ca (neoteric). they have the best systems and/or components, imo. the greasecar kit is fine for what it is, but to be honest, i think they sell a lot more kits simply because they do include a gas tank (and they are cheaper). i am going to build my own kit from components from the aforementioned sites with a modified aluminum boat tank. the frybrid system design is the best on the market, again, imo.
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  #4  
Old 04-09-2005, 04:13 PM
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Frybrid is state of the art, top of the line stuff. Neoteric has that fantastic VegTherm, quality components. Dana Linscot has great DIY files and sells well thought out components.
Greasel and Greasecar have cheaper stuff, it seems.
I would not be swayed by a tank though, they are readily available.
Make sure you investigate customer service prior to deciding. The best place you are going to find good criticisms of kits from owners is on the Maui infopop board I mentioned prior. http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/frm/f/159605551
Check out the forums of the kit manufacturers. How much of a presence are they in helping folks out?
Call them. Do they have time for you? Gives a taste af things to come.

I personally have had interactions with Dana Linscott: http://vegoilconversions.netfirms.com/ For the DIYer.
Bought his HotRod coollant heated fuel pickup, and files on filtering oil and heating it under the hood.
He is a pioneer in SVO, offers tremendous guidance at his site and in the infopop board, I recommend highly. Clearly committed to the community.

Craig Reece of Neoteric Biofuels, http://www.biofuels.ca/index.html, sold me a VegTherm, specially designed inline fuel heater, an outstanding SVO high performance product. They sell high quality kits and components. Nice folks, and have contributed great ideas about conversions as well.

Just found out about Frybrid, top of the line stuff. Chris Goodwin has his own forum on his site http://www.frybrid.com/test.htm, and is a regular presence there. I can't wait to get one of his goodies, fantastic stuff, and he is super helpful and knowlegeable.

I do read the Greasecar forum at times, though it is clearly censored by the owners, I don't see any input from them. Greasel offers no community outreach and little useful conversion info, near as I can tell. Have frieinds who have complaints about both those systems as well.
Personally, I am all about supporting those who support the community.

Putting this all together myself, I would only recommend it if you have a lot of time and are a big tinkerer. It is a lot of work to assemble a kit.
Of course, this is the tinkerers board, isn't it?
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2005, 09:31 PM
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Jeeze, just dump the filtered WVO into the tank and drive. I'd say it works for me; I just did a 180 mile round trip on 99.9% WVO.
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  #6  
Old 04-10-2005, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe
and perhaps watch your engine die an early death...
Truth is you might never know if you did the damge.'dump it in'. ..
Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy.... you forget what car you are talking about. This is the 617 that is probably historically the one engine with the most WVO miles than any other engine in the world. From what I have read history seems to show this engine LOVES veg. fuel even as a one tanker with little to no conversion. Your right it will probably sustain damage as a one tanker. butttttt.... it seems that the damage shortens the life of the engine by a small amount; least compared to other engines.

there are a LOT of full conversions on this engine as well and yeah... it seems they do fair a bit longer.. but then again that may just be cause the folk who are so inclined to do a fuel conversion are the type to be more inclined to do meticulus maintainace while it is owned by them.
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  #7  
Old 04-10-2005, 01:48 AM
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Coach, I appreciate what you are saying, the tangible proof is illusive, yet in this regard I personally would prefer to err on the side of caution.
Why make the IP pull fluid that is 12 times thicker than the fuel it was built to move? You can get modified injectors, but most don't. And those hard, cold, oil starts can't be all that good...
Sure, the motor is brilliantly tough.
I remain convinced that bringing the oil as close to diesel specs of vicosity is best for its longevity.
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  #8  
Old 04-10-2005, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Leo
Jeeze, just dump the filtered WVO into the tank and drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachgeo
From what I have read history seems to show this engine LOVES veg. fuel even as a one tanker with little to no conversion. Your right it will probably sustain damage as a one tanker. butttttt.... it seems that the damage shortens the life of the engine by a small amount; least compared to other engines.
WRONG WRONG WRONG !!!!
Vegetable oil NEEDS to be well-heated (~160* is the number that usually gets thrown around) before it goes into your engine.
Sure, it will run for a while until the valves gum up.
I know a guy who was running SVO in his '99 Diesel Mercedes which was unmodified. Ran fine for 8 months, then began smoking on the highway. Shortly after that it would smoke like a sonofagun starting. Then no start. He had to tear it down and found the heads completely coked and the reason it wasn't starting was in two cylinders the exhaust valves were gummed up so much that they weren't closing ergo no compression.
I had always wondered what the deal was with coking the rings and gumming the valves and always wondered if it wasn't being blown out of proportion somewhat but this guy's actual experience now gives me a sort of baseline.
Mike, check out Neoteric (www.biofuels.ca). At this point I've done a few conversions myself and helped a friend of mine with his Cummins & I've dealt with Craig of Neoteric quite a bit; they've got top-notch stuff and excellent support.
Good luck!
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1982 300D Turbo 150K
PlantDrive Single tank WVO conversion
6000 veggie miles and counting!
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1985 Ford F250 - 132K
PlantDrive Two-tank WVO conversion
15,000 veggie miles and counting...

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  #9  
Old 04-10-2005, 01:56 AM
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Alright you stubborn single tankers:
at least use the right injectors please:
http://www.coloradobiodiesel.com/injectors/index.html
and note that Tom says "These injectors can run regular diesel fuel for a short time in an emergency, but are optimized for SVO/WVO and Biodiesel fuel."
These look so darn cool to me....
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  #10  
Old 04-10-2005, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe
But I might gently suggest that until those long-term results are in, it might be a tad more responsible not to encourage less informed folks to just 'dump it in'.
Give your money to Greasel or whoever; I've been running near straight WVO since last fall.
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Last edited by engatwork; 04-13-2005 at 02:58 PM.
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  #11  
Old 04-10-2005, 11:40 AM
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The '99 diesel mentioned above is a totally different animal than our old 617 diesels. I don't know of anyone who has reported problems with coking. Much of the research I have seen has been done with oils that will never be seen within hundreds of miles of my engine.

I do agree that if you cannot deal with the problems of diesel fuel system research you should stay away from veg oil with either a two tank or a one tank system. Look at the threads in this forum discussing the problems people have with maintaining these old cars. Add experimental fuel to situation and you can expect problems, lots of problems.

The only guaranteed results from your investment in a two tank system is that your wallet will be lighter and your car will be hacked-up.

Just as an arbitrary benchmark, if you are not familiar with the insides of your injectors stay away from veg oil.
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Last edited by TwitchKitty; 04-10-2005 at 05:23 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-10-2005, 12:24 PM
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you know, when all is said and done these are all great experiements we're running and coming back to the table with different experience and really with fuel now at 2.68/gal here in n.california even if the engine needs a top-end rebuild after a year we're probably still ahead in terms of dollars spent. this thing shouldn't turn into a pissing match but it is good to get discussion back & forth. it's also good to get solid facts together IMHO because a lot of this stuff IS so experimental.
having said that, i belong to the same school as jimmy and err on the side of caution with my *very* nice 300D that i've taken time and energy to purchase & get running well and would like to keep that way. I follow the prevailing wisdom on the principles of heating vegetable oil and filtering it well before introducing iti to my engine. if you look at all the conversion kit people they are all selling components based on these two principles.
perhaps the 99 mercedes is in many ways a different animal from the 617 however i personally regard his experience as pretty conclusive evidence of what can happen with unheated oil. i do concede that people can get over-zealous on this issue but i also think it best to err on the side of caution if you are at all concerned about keeping your engine running in top condition. i myself am running a single-tank system based on conversations with Craig of Neoteric. They have converted many many 240s and 300s. in this san francisco bay area climate a single-tank system works just great. if you are in colder climates you need a two-tank system.
i did just get my veg-ject injectors from colorado biodiesel this week and will post my results once they're in and running; however Neoteric's conversions are all done based on stock injectors but i have turned them on to tom's site.
i would be most interested to hear of anyone's long-term experience with running veg oil in an unmodified 617 and would be willing to reassess my position based on those results.
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Jeff
___
1982 300D Turbo 150K
PlantDrive Single tank WVO conversion
6000 veggie miles and counting!
-----------
1985 Ford F250 - 132K
PlantDrive Two-tank WVO conversion
15,000 veggie miles and counting...

Driving for FREE!
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  #13  
Old 04-10-2005, 12:37 PM
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you know these things run ~$160.
seems like cheap insurance to me, at very least, considering all the other fuss we make over these cars on this forum
http://www.biofuels.ca/page24.html
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Jeff
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1982 300D Turbo 150K
PlantDrive Single tank WVO conversion
6000 veggie miles and counting!
-----------
1985 Ford F250 - 132K
PlantDrive Two-tank WVO conversion
15,000 veggie miles and counting...

Driving for FREE!
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  #14  
Old 04-10-2005, 05:26 PM
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Here is a link to a site that I don't often see mentioned with information that I don't often see discussed.

http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm

Note that on this site there are references to a Caterpiller diesel that is warranteed to run veg oil. If cat aint afraid of coking, I will wait until someone actually sees some before I worry about it.

There is also a mention of a reference to longevity of MB diesels running veg.
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Last edited by TwitchKitty; 04-10-2005 at 05:40 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-10-2005, 05:44 PM
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If the possibility of coking kept me from driving my car, other possible destruction would also. I am more worried about some idiot hitting my car and the insurance company totaling a nearly irreplaceable car for less than I could buy a little ****box made in Korea.
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