Risks of using biodiesel in my "New" 1999 E300D

[Warren C]

Just acquired a 1999 E300D....boy what a nice driving car compared to my 1987.

It's got 160K miles all previously run on dino diesel I think.

I'd like to run biodiesel in it but I don't want to mess up this fine running machine or incurr expensive repairs.

What are my risks if I run biodiesel in this vehicle.

I've been warned by the local independent MB repair shop about the solvent quality of biodiesel, releasing all sorts of gremlins loose into my fuel system....clogging filters and maybe damaging the injection pump.

What about hoses and pump seals in this vehicle ...are they at risk for damage with biodiesel?

Need some wise feedback.

Warren C.

[Biodiesel300TD]

There is no risk of running biodiesel. There are a few things you will beed to keep and eye on. Yes, biodiesel is a great solvent and it will clean out your fuel system. So you will possibly need to change out your fuel filters once or twice. But since your car is so new this probably won't be a big deal. The other thing you have to keep an eye on is any rubber in the fuel system. On your car there isn't a whole lot of rubber in your fuel system to worry about. Your IP has rubber seals under the delivery valve that will start leaking at some point. But the new ULSD is causing seal to shrink so it's happening whether you're using biodiesel or not. In the winter months you should run a blend of biodiesel and petrol diesel. The reason for this is because biodiesel gels at a warm temp that petro diesel so it will clogg things up, but if you blend it with petro all will be fine. Biodiesel comes in several blends. The most common are B99, B50, B20, and B5. (B99 is 99% biodiesel and 1% petro, while B20 is 20% bio and 80% petro.)

[olweasel]

I have a friend that owns a VW shop. He was showing me a VW van that had been running on Biodiesel. A spark from the fuel pump (located in the tank) blew up the tank, and did a lot of damage to the body, and serious injury to the driver. I am running a mix of filtered vegoil and dino diesel in my 240D, but would hesitate to recommend biodiesel if the electric fuel pump is inside the fuel tank. I understand that biodiesel is thinned by the addition of methanol(or is it ethanol?) in either case, it seems to be easily ignited, I saw the damage it caused...olweasel

[Biodiesel300TD]

Originally Posted by olweasel

I have a friend that owns a VW shop. He was showing me a VW van that had been running on Biodiesel. A spark from the fuel pump (located in the tank) blew up the tank, and did a lot of damage to the body, and serious injury to the driver. I am running a mix of filtered vegoil and dino diesel in my 240D, but would hesitate to recommend biodiesel if the electric fuel pump is inside the fuel tank. I understand that biodiesel is thinned by the addition of methanol(or is it ethanol?) in either case, it seems to be easily ignited, I saw the damage it caused...olweasel

I work at Grease Works (www.greaseworks.org). We specialize in diesel VW's, diesel MB's, biodiesel, veggieoil, and general repair. What year VW van was it? The old diesel vanagons don't have a fuel pump in the tank. I'm not sure about the EuroVans. The VW vanagons have a mechanical IP, the TDI are electrical but are also turned by the timming belt.

Biodiesel is not thinned with methanol or ethanol. In the process of making biodiesel from veggie oil, methanol or ethanol is added, but if the reaction happens properly and the resulting biodisel is cleaned properly there is no methanol or ethanol in the final product. Biodiesel proper has nothing added to it. The flash point of Biodiesel is 300F while petrol diesel's flash point is about 150F. I find it hard to believe that a spark blew up the tank, unless it was someones homebrew biodiesel that didn't have all the methanol removed, which causes lots of other problem as well. We've dealt with and talked to thousands of biodiesel users and never head anything like that before.

[probear]

Or it was mixed with something else, like RUG.
BioDiesel is just that and nothing more. It is not WVO, VO, blended VO (by blended meaning RUG with VO), or 'magic' formulas that convert VO.

As Biodiesel300TD pointed out, the flash point of BioDiesel is much higher than #2. In fact, BioDiesel is NOT considered a hazardous material, while #2 is.

Now, back to the other question. I have a 99 F-350 PSD CC 4WD Dually. I have run two years on B100 during the spring, summer, and fall, I've had no problems other than a fuel filter. Good Biodiesel will do your engine good.

[olweasel]

sorry about the lack of info, this was not a diesell vanagon. It was a fairly new eurovan. The mechanic said the fuel pump was defective, and sparked inside the fuel tank. I have not met the owner, and have no idea where he got the biodiesel. olweasel

[Warren C]

Please guys....I'd prefer my question/thread not get hijacked .....in a debate on biodiesel brewing methods or proper use of it in VW vanagons...

I'm looking for answers with relevence to biodiesel in my 1999 Mercedes

Warren C.

Biodiesel is perfectly fine. It's SVO, WVO, and homemade biodiesel that should be avoided completely.

[RichC]

.

Hello Warren C.

You may want to check out

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums

For your answers.

There are many many people there who have used biodiesel for extended periods.

And the added benefit of not getting your thread hijacked so often.

Thanks
Live well, Love much, Laugh often
RichC


.

[Biodiesel300TD]

Originally Posted by Warren C

Please guys....I'd prefer my question/thread not get hijacked .....in a debate on biodiesel brewing methods or proper use of it in VW vanagons...

I'm looking for answers with relevence to biodiesel in my 1999 Mercedes

Warren C.

Sorry, I didn't want mis-information to confuse you. There is no risk for you to run bidoiesel in your car. And you can run homebrew bio or veggie oil if you do it correctly. The link Infopop above as well as Biodiesel Now have lots of info on different models.

[WINGAS]

NO RISK AT ALL. ( esp commercially brewed).

FWIW, my 95 absolutely loves the stuff. Straight or B20, dont matter, but it likes some bio in the tank. Got that lill black thing "WINGAS" plates to state her perference. I dig the funky smell too.

I changed out all the clear lines before the bio. Changed the prefitler/filter once since. The pre had some tiny black stuff in it, no biggie. I think in cars as "new" as ours, there should be no real "flushing algae issue". But, you must be prepared. I have not yet pulled the tank screen for a cleaning. Next step.

[dukegrad98]

I'll chime in because my car/situation is nearly identical to yours. I bought a 1998 E300TD sedan a few months ago now, with about 171k on the clock, dino diesel as far as I know. I have run *nothing* but commercial B99 biodiesel in the car since I bought it -- not an ounce of dino, etc. The car absolutely loves the stuff, and now has about 176k -- so 5000 miles of biodiesel has gone through it. The car is running far smoother than it was when I bought it, and demonstrates an enthusiasm to perform that wasn't there when I first bought it. Fuel mileage seems to take a hit of around 10%, but it's worth it to be environmental and to not be exporting money to terrorist harbor countries -- that's why I bought the car in the first place.

I had a brief fuel drip (not even enough to call it a leak -- just a few drips in the garage) that "self-healed" and hasn't been a problem since. The biodiesel is a great solvent, and it did clog my fuel filter. You'll notice that your car does not have the little see-through pre-filter that other older models have -- just the spin-on can that looks like an engine oil filter. They only cost about $10, so have one in the trunk along with a 3/4" wrench. If you completely clog the filter, the engine will die or refuse to start. In my case, one day it became very obvious through acceleration that I was having a fueling problem. I filled the new filter with fuel, spun it on, cranked for about sixty seconds, and was off to the races. No problem.

I'm very happy with my B99 experience, and hope you have the same. Plus, you're doing it riding in style in that car! Please keep us posted.

Cheers, John

[DieselAddict]

Generally there's no risk if it's well-made, properly-washed biodiesel, other than potential fuel leaks from deteriorating rubber and clogged fuel filters if your fuel system is dirty. For more info, check out this site: http://biodiesel.org/resources/fuelfactsheets/ and especially this article: http://biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Biodiesel_Blends_Above%20_20_Final.pdf

I'm just not sure about the polymerization issue. It's stated that biodiesel's higher viscosity may cause larger amounts of unburned fuel to get past the rings and enter the engine oil, causing the bio to polymerize and result in engine sludge. If bio is thicker than petrodiesel, wouldn't it be harder for it to get past the rings? Besides bio has a higher cetane value which makes it burn more readily than petrodiesel. The only issue I can see here is if the bio is very cold and it's near the gel point it won't burn completely and perhaps it could then get into the engine oil.

Another potential issue with bio is its thermal stability, but that's probably only an issue with the latest, high-injection-pressure diesel engines. MB and VW only approve of blends up to 5% though I don't know the exact reason for that.

[F18]

Warren.....I'll chime in with John. I have run my 98 E300TD on everything from B100 to B20 when I can get it with no problems. The new ULSD is more of a problem than commercial BioDiesel on this model because of shrinking fuel line & IP "O" ring seals and subsiquent fuel leaks......

Cheers

[Warren C]

Thanks for the good responses...especially John (Dukegrad98...I'm a dukegrad69)...and Fred who have the same model vehicle.

There seems to be some prejudices against "non-commercial" biodiesel....my source is a local guy who makes several thousand gallons monthly and probably local small producers or "co-ops"... not sure where there would be a "commercial" source near me.

Who sets the standards on "good" biodiesel.

Warren