WVO, oh no! I'm going to ruin my engine! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sailor15015 · #16 05-03-2005, 11:29 PM

I word of advice, if you do experience excessive filter cloggin, as in one small fram filter every forty miles, as I did, you might want to seriously consider tapping into your heater lines and making a good wrap of hose like Dana describes on her web site. This is the solution she prescribed for my problem and so far(about 75 miles on the same Fram filter) its worked great. I had a pad heater from Greasel that supposedly heats to 180 degrees but Dana told me that the coolant coil would work much better. I was doubtful this afternoon when I switched it over but its worked great so far. Anyway, just trying to help you quickly solve a problem that has had me banging my head against the wall since February. I have a two tank system from Neoteric biofuels, by the way. I ran the gambit from diesel, RUG, and biodiesel blends to pulling the tank and bleaching it, suspecting a bacteria growth. All of this to find out that I simply wasn't heating my filter enough!

tenknots · #17 05-04-2005, 10:59 AM

Good point Sailor, but I assume that Dana (gosh, I thought it was a guy. Am I wrong?) advocates hot filtering which melts the fat and allows it to reform as it cools. Heating it before it's burned remelts the fat and stops the filter plugs (all this makes for much faster filtering, I'm told). But cold filtering should filter out the solidified fat so it can't clog the car's filter. I may be wrong, and if so, I appreciate your suggestion. One question though about your setup is in regards to heating 100% diesel - I assume heating it lowers its lubricity and I wanted to avoid that.

whunter · #18 05-04-2005, 11:55 AM

Dana Linscott is one of biofuel's true renaissance men. He entered the field before it was cool and has continued to guide and inspire a generation of grease fans.

http://www.westermanway.com/grease/dana_linscott.htm

http://vegoilconversions.netfirms.com/

http://danalinscott.netfirms.com/

sailor15015 · #19 05-04-2005, 12:19 PM

My mistake. I saw the name Dana and assumed it was a female. I tried cold filtering as he and others recomended but it still didn't make a difference in how quickly my filters were clogging. I have fitted a small fram filter with a coolant jacket, at his recomendation. I drove to town and back last night(about 30 miles) and to school this morning(about 10) on the same filter and its still working great. I tapped into my lines and placed the 6 port solaniod before the diesel filter so the only vegetable oil that goes through it is the few inches between the valve and filter when I purge. I don't have any kind of heating around the diesel filter. Apparently the coolant jacket is doing a much better job than the pad heater. My car runs at about 97 degrees C at operating temperature and the rubber fuel hoses will conform to the shape of the filter. This has done an excellent job so far of keeping the waxes in solution and not in my filter! I'm not sure since you will be running it all through the same filter. I don't know if it will affect the lubricating quality of the diesel or not but I imagine if you run blends the veg oil will more than make up for it. Maybe someone else who knows more about this can chime in? Feel free to email or PM me if you have any quetstions about running wvo. I'm only 17 and I know there are better experts out there than me but I've been working on and modifying my wvo system for about six months now and I do know some of the ins and outs.

BobK · #20 05-04-2005, 01:13 PM

Ok, my dumb question: I have a fuel cooler from a 201 190E. This is the little gizmo that was in the fule system and the A/C system. Occured to me it could also be used to ADD heat to fuel. Thinking about using it in a blend system. Question is: is it a good or bad thing to heat regular diesel to 180+ degrees and use it? I seem to recall an electric inline fuel heater in my old Chev 6.2 diesel truck. Think it came on at 32 degrees or something like that.

tenknots · #21 05-04-2005, 02:17 PM

My studies of this have been limited to the internet, but some people believe that heating diesel that high lowers its lubricity and that diesel should not be heated (in fact I know that in large boats, diesel fuel is often seawater cooled). My concern is if I need to run 100% diesel for some reason. Also, if I ever convert to a two-tank system, I'd want to be able to bypass the heaters (or in the case of an electric one, just turn it off, which is why they appeal to me right now). Here is a quote I found at machnerylubrication.com: "Recalling the well-known Stribeck curve, the oil film produced by hydrodynamic lubrication is directly influenced by viscosity." Since high temps reduce viscocity, to me that means high temps reduce lubricity.

By the way, it's good to see that the newest generation thinks that an expert in WVO technology is just as likely a female.

Sailor, are you a sailor as well? What kind if boat?

Whunter, Dana has selflessly answered a few of my questions already - how he has the time I don't know. But there seems to be a void in single tank system technology which I hope to add to in my small way. I may find out why there are so few of them running!

The great thing about a forum like this is that others can learn from my mistakes and vice versa.

TonyFromWestOz · #22 05-05-2005, 08:34 AM

Gents,
It is wise to be able to disable the heating system for the fuel where straight diesel is in use. This could be done by installing a ball valve in the coolant line to the fuel heater. When you are going to use 100% diesel ,turn the heat off.

Another option is to always add say 5% vegoil to the diesel. Not enough to cause problems, especially when heated, but more than enough to compensate for the lack of lubricity of heated diesel.

sailor15015 · #23 05-05-2005, 09:14 AM

Yes I am. My step dad has a 1985 Dolphin 22 that I learned to sail on and I'm in the middle of restoring a 1979 Allen Lightning that I got for only $300. That should tell you what kind of shape its in.

Its been put on the back burner till I can get this conversion working properly. What tony said about adding 5% sounds right to me. That should more than make up for any viscosity due to heating.

mespe · #24 05-05-2005, 11:09 AM

I've been adding WVO to my 300SD for about a year now. I stopped in the winter time due to the solidfying of oils in this climate. Unfortunately, the WVO I get is from chicken wings and fries. I'll heat up a cubbie under a clear plastic sheet, until it warms up to atleast 80F and then pump directly from the cubie to the tank. I use a 12 volt fuel pump and jumper cables. Takes about 10 minutes to pump 4 gallons, but I'm busy doing other things while it's filling. Currently blend is somehwere between 20 and 30 percent WVO.

Oh what in the world is RUG? Real Ugly Grease????

no heaters, preheaters or additional filtering. I keep spare filters in the car. I think I might have some wax buildup or something because I don't trust the car with under 1/4 tank. When I get below 1/4 tank the car seems to run out of fuel, no power. Above that she's got balls.

Spin tire type acceleration outta a 5 cylinder diesel???

Good luck

www.benzbonz.biz

Marty

Old300D · #25 05-05-2005, 11:50 AM

RUG = Regular Unleaded Gasoline

tenknots · #26 05-05-2005, 01:31 PM

Good idea Tony. Which would you suggest first, a coolant heat exchanger or an electric heater?

Mespe, were you not able to add any WVO in the winter? What climate are you in?

TonyFromWestOz · #27 05-06-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenknots

Good idea Tony. Which would you suggest first, a coolant heat exchanger or an electric heater?

Mespe, were you not able to add any WVO in the winter? What climate are you in?

Tenknots,
I recommend that you should install a colant operated heat exchanger. This will provide heat, at no reduction in fuel consumption, for the majority of engine operation. Should you have the $ available, an electric heater (vegtherm or similar) could be added to the fuel system, prior to the IP, to reduce heating delay when starting from cold.

tenknots · #28 06-22-2005, 03:10 PM

So far, so good. I have 4000 miles on wvo, 2000 of which is straight unblended wvo. The only issue I have is a slightly longer starting time on straight. Engine is much smoother, and quieter. I can't tell if I'm still getting 30 mpg since it's a bit harder to measure accurately coming out of a 5-gallon jug, but my estimate is slightly less (I'm also running the AC). I had to replace both filters at 2000 miles I assume because the wvo cleaned up the system and deposited the remains in the filter.

I took Tony's advice and installed a coolant operated heat exchanger last week. I'm hoping that the filters will last longer since solid fats will go right through. I'm already at 2000 miles in the current filters and all is well.

Next report in 3000 miles or 1 month.

coldwar · #29 06-22-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenknots

Or am I?

As it gets cooler yet, I will try different blends to decrease viscosity including RUG (regular unleaded gas). In the winter (assuming no meltdowns have occurred as has been/may be suggested) I may have to go back to a 50/50 mix or a 50% wvo/40% diesel/ 10% RUG. Or something completely different. If I have to, I'll go back to 100 diesel (but I'll keep sneaking some wvo in as an experiment until I've been stuck on the side of a cold highway too many times) I'll also run a diesel fuel cetane booster/conditioner.

I have stocked up on fuel filters and I'm meticulous about filtering and cleanliness. I expect some junk initially from the fuel tank that is released by the wvo, but my tank was completetly cleaned out 5 years ago by the PO, so I may be lucky.

OLD 300D Mentions the wax precip out of the regular Diesel fuel problem when blended with WVO- I agree this is a possible risk, and take it seriously, with a couple of very unfortunate accounts being reported. It is mentioned by some however, that RUG or Naptha will disolve the wax, and so keep this from happening. I use 1 quart of Naptha for every 5 gallons of WVO blended with my regular Diesel. THIS MUST STILL BE CONSIDERED UNPROVEN HOWEVER.

So far, with Canadian springtime temperatures, I am blending 30% WVO. From a cold start first thing in the morning (ambient ~ 45 F), the engine will miss fire and ping a lot, until the injectors get warm after about 5 minutes, then the whole thing gets rearkably quiet. I will not drive the car until it reaches this quiet phase. You'll be amazed at how WVO improves the sound of your engine- also be prepared for a noticable increase in power when climbing hills. Forget adding the Cetane booster- WVO is the best Cetane booster you will ever find.

Problems? So far, one plugged main fuel filter, but it has never been changed since I've owned the car (8 months). I have no idea when it was last changed, so it may have been ready anyway. The old one was absolutely corrupted with black gunk. My WVO comes out the color of honey- nothing black about it. My final filtering phase is to drip it slowly through a toilet paper roll- 5 gallons drips through 1 roll in about 24 hours.

I also intend to keep a good stash of filters in my trunk- just in case. My car doesn't have the little in-line filter- just the bigger cartridge type.

Good Luck,

Dave

1976 300D

coldwar · #30 06-22-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenknots

Good point Sailor, but I assume that Dana (gosh, I thought it was a guy. Am I wrong?) advocates hot filtering which melts the fat and allows it to reform as it cools. Heating it before it's burned remelts the fat and stops the filter plugs (all this makes for much faster filtering, I'm told). But cold filtering should filter out the solidified fat so it can't clog the car's filter. I may be wrong, and if so, I appreciate your suggestion. One question though about your setup is in regards to heating 100% diesel - I assume heating it lowers its lubricity and I wanted to avoid that.

From my experience- the cold filtering process doesn't remove the fat- not even through the toilet paper roll. Somehow it seeps through- it just takes a lot longer.

My source gives me a combination of fatty and clear used canola. I suspect the fatty is what he's fryin' the chicken in. So far, I've just avoided the fatty oil by setting it aside. Pre-heating is in my future, and that's when I'll use the fatty stuff.

BTW- your main fuel filter (assuming you have OM617 engine) gets plenty warm on it's own, being so close to the injectors. No pre-heating in summer temps is really necessary, except for the rough running and nailing during the short warm-up period.

Dave

1976 300D

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