WVO, SVO, biodiesel etc. facts and comparison - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Grdenko · #1 05-02-2005, 03:35 PM

i know alternative fuels for diesel engines have been discussed at length on this board, but after searching each one, i havent found a thread that presents the facts and comparison of them in a clear and concise way. whunter's thread has all of the links, but it would be nice to have the basic info in one place for all of them, such as:

definition of each one
difficulty/price conversion
price per gallon
milage difference, if any
availability
practicality
etc...

lots of people are interested in this right now so it would be nice to have for people deciding which fuel they want to use.
thanks

Habanero · #2 05-02-2005, 04:14 PM

The problem with the information you ask for is it is so variable.

Difficulty/price of conversion: depends on how much you can/want to do yourself and how good you are at the mechanical skills required

price per gallon: depends on how much you are paying for supplies to make the biodiesel, filter the wvo, how much you pay for the conversion, etc.

mileage difference: depends on the vehicle and how accurately you measure your fuel consumption, ranges from no difference to maybe a mpg or two less on wvo or biodiesel

availability: www.biodiesel.org for a somewhat (I think) comprehensive list of retail biodiesel locations

practicality: see difficulty/price of conversion

etc: www.biodiesel.infopop.cc

Old300D · #3 05-02-2005, 04:52 PM

Don't forget local climate. Floridians can run 100%WVO single tank, where Minnesotans must have a dual tank fully heated setup.

JamesStein · #4 05-02-2005, 09:55 PM

Not sure what Floridians you are talking about.. I am in NorthWest Florida and I found out this winter I needed a heater.

Kalanu · #5 05-02-2005, 10:32 PM

The weather in NW Florida is quite different than the weather in Miami. In these discussions, Florida, Miami, SoCal, etc, are used as examples of places where the weather might likely to be over 70F all the time. Not so in Pensecola though.

JamesStein · #6 05-02-2005, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalanu

The weather in NW Florida is quite different than the weather in Miami. In these discussions, Florida, Miami, SoCal, etc, are used as examples of places where the weather might likely to be over 70F all the time. Not so in Pensecola though.

Yes I realize that the weather in NW Florida is vastly different than Miami. I was just making a point, that all of Florida isn't pure WVO with no heater safe. In fact, anything north of Orlando/Ocala area you really need at least heated hoses.

Grdenko · #7 05-08-2005, 06:39 PM

heres what i understand:

WVO: waste vegetable oil - is used vegetable oil (as in, yesterday i was cooking my lunch in it, now im burning it in my engine) has to be filtered and congeals at a lower temperature than straight, unused vegetable oil and has to be kept warm so that it will be able to flow throught the fuel lines and the IP, but is essentially free and easy to find.

SVO: straight vegetable oil - new vegetable oil, corn, soy, peanut, canola etc. requires no filtering because its new, is fluid and only has to be heated in colder climates, but is expensive.

Biodiesel: either one but with a chemical additive so it requires no conversion and is commercially available in some places.

Another thing i read about but have not heard mentioned in this forum is GTL:
"Another intriguing alternative to oil comes from natural gas. Gas-to-liquids (GTL) is the clunky name given to a set of fuels that can be blended into conventional diesel and used in today's engines. They have the advantage of being super-clean, as well as boosting the potency of diesel fuel. Though they can be made from coal or biomass, the most likely option is natural gas." - The Economist April 28, 2005

My questions:

Is what i said above correct? what fuels can I use that require no conversion at all? how warn do SVO and WVO need to be to keep them flowing? what is this GTL and is anyone using it? can it be blended into WVO/SVO instead of methanol to make biodiesel? can any of these fuels increase maintenence or shorten engine life?

DieselJim · #8 05-08-2005, 06:48 PM

You can also make bio from WVO by using chemicals. You will see plenty of other threads about that!

Matt SD300 · #9 05-08-2005, 09:12 PM

I live in San Diego,Ca and run a 60% Canola WVO/40% Diesel blend (single tank) plus I still add Power Service & a biocide additive.

I am getting GREAT mileage. The car is getting the same as it did when it was running on diesel but... since it only takes 8 gals. of diesel to fill the tank now. The 8 gals. of diesel plus the FREE 12 gals.of WVO can take me 500 miles = 62.5 mpg!!!

The key to making the single tank work is GREAT SUPER CLEAN WVO & overkill fuel filtration. Plus a warm climate. By next month I will running a 70/30 mix.

I dont recomend using oil that has any fat in it. Find a source that only frys french fries or is making potato chips or frying veggies only.. you get the idea. NO ANIMAL FAT frying of beef/chicken/pork and so on. Stick with pure oils.. Canloa/soy/cotton seed/peanut...NO OILS WITH SOLIDS IN THEM(heavy layer at the bottom). The oil MUST be filtered before using in the car.

The stock fuel filters are tiny for a diesel. You will need to add another fuel filter.

TonyFromWestOz · #10 05-09-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grdenko

heres what i understand:

WVO: waste vegetable oil - is used vegetable oil (as in, yesterday i was cooking my lunch in it, now im burning it in my engine) has to be filtered and congeals at a lower temperature than straight, unused vegetable oil and has to be kept warm so that it will be able to flow throught the fuel lines and the IP, but is essentially free and easy to find.

The melting point depends on a couple of things:
The source oil - Canola, Oilive, Soy, Hydrogenated Soy, Hydrogenated Palm oil, Tallow. Only some are liquid at room temperatures
The items being fried - Home cut potato chips will not lower the melting point, but pre-fried potato chips, chicken, roast meat dripping, etc will.

Quote:

SVO: straight vegetable oil - new vegetable oil, corn, soy, peanut, canola etc. requires no filtering because its new, is fluid and only has to be heated in colder climates, but is expensive.

The SVO melts at different temperatures: - Canola, Oilive, Soy, Hydrogenated Soy, Hydrogenated Palm oil, Tallow. Only some are liquid at room temperatures, this is not bad, only different!

Quote:

Biodiesel: either one but with a chemical additive so it requires no conversion and is commercially available in some places.

Not an additive, a chemical reaction processes any VO or animal fat into biodiesel. Again, the melting point is variable and is related to the oil feedstock for the biodiesel process. Higher melting point oils give higher melting point biodiesel, but many degrees lower (I have a sample of tallow which is solid @ 40'C and it makes biodiesel which is liquid around 10'C

Quote:

Another thing i read about but have not heard mentioned in this forum is GTL:
"Another intriguing alternative to oil comes from natural gas. Gas-to-liquids (GTL) is the clunky name given to a set of fuels that can be blended into conventional diesel and used in today's engines. They have the advantage of being super-clean, as well as boosting the potency of diesel fuel. Though they can be made from coal or biomass, the most likely option is natural gas." - The Economist April 28, 2005

My questions:

Is what i said above correct? what fuels can I use that require no conversion at all? how warn do SVO and WVO need to be to keep them flowing? what is this GTL and is anyone using it? can it be blended into WVO/SVO instead of methanol to make biodiesel? can any of these fuels increase maintenence or shorten engine life?

You missed out on WVO blends with biodiesel, Petroleum diesel, kerosine or gasoline. VO, WVO Biodiesel and blends all have advantages and disadvantages and climatic conditions will require different engineering approaches for different fuels. Basically, high MP oils will require heating or a low % blend (<30%VO)to allow their usage. Low MP oils will require less heat and may be suited to "single tank" conversions, or high % blends (>30%VO). This does depend on your IP being suited to the high viscosity of these fuels. WVO & VO blends with more liquid fuels can be a useful way of trying out renewable fuels, but may have problems associated with them if the diesel is a high wax fuel.
With ANY VO conversion, I recommend adding a fuel heater to minimise the potential for carbon build up in the combustion chambers.
I aim for a fuel temperature of 80'C before selecting the VO fuel.
Biodiesel can be blended with diesel kero or gasoline to overcome any melting point issues and should not require heating unless made from High MP oils/fats.

MBZ_Greaser · #11 05-09-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

I dont recomend using oil that has any fat in it. Find a source that only frys french fries or is making potato chips or frying veggies only.. you get the idea. NO ANIMAL FAT frying of beef/chicken/pork and so on. Stick with pure oils.. Canloa/soy/cotton seed/peanut...NO OILS WITH SOLIDS IN THEM(heavy layer at the bottom). The oil MUST be filtered before using in the car.

Agreed except for one thing, Fish oils, they seem to burn great, have very little fatty clumps and (might be my imagination) seem to give the car a little more power.

I live in NW Arkansas and have been on 100% WVO for about 3 weeks now, it got a little cool and had to mix #2Dino in but other than that I'm scott free till October. I have done no modification on my 240D, not even bigger filters, I filter the snot outta the stuff before I use it as fuel.

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