Bush cornering hydrogen market? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 01-30-2003, 07:57 AM

Bush must have sum sinister plan to line his own pockets

Click here if you can handle reality

Keep in mind this is MSNBC probably the least friendly news channel to Republicans.

engatwork · #2 01-30-2003, 08:08 AM

I guess he is moving his savings from oil companies into fuel cell tech companies. I wonder why he did not mention biodiesel? Maybe has something to keeping the oil companies stock up while he gets out over the next few years.

#3 01-30-2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by engatwork
I guess he is moving his savings from oil companies into fuel cell tech companies. I wonder why he did not mention biodiesel? Maybe has something to keeping the oil companies stock up while he gets out over the next few years.

Maybe it's a cover up!

leathermang · #4 01-30-2003, 08:20 AM

It is a lot easier to decombine water into hydrogen than make biofuels...and transport,etc..... and still makes some pollution compared to a windmill making the electricity for the decombination...then burning the hydrogen.. none from that combination....

Edit add on.... I am more for burning Hydrogen than using it for fuel cells.. I am not sure what they are made from but suspect they are heavy enough metals that disposal will be a problem at some point in the future...

SHYNE · #5 01-30-2003, 10:14 AM

I would much prefer to operate and own a more cost effective car using an adapted internal combustion engine running on hydrogen.

I hope more companies follow BMW in producing hydrogen burning internal combustion engines like BMW's 4.4 litre V8

The infastructure needed would be cheaper overall to convert filling stations to liquid hydrogen fuel than to overhaul all of the automotive repair industry's workshops.

Training technicians for fuel cell operated vehicles would also be a nightmare.

Try and get a Toyota Prius or Honda Insight serviced any place other than the special authorized dealerships that have the one technician to cover an entire city like we have in London, Ontario Canada.

A city of 367,000 people (Macleans, Magazine) has only 1 Toyota technician to service the Prius.

Obviously the training would get better but, can you understand my point?

Why not convert the internal combustion engine to run on hydrogen? You will get great performance, poor fuel economy (for a while until the mileage problem can be overcome) and low (relatively) operating costs....

I won't even begin to speak about the love affair we have had for so long with the beautiful noises, smells and dynamics of the internal combustion powered vehicles.

I wonder what will happen to the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius when they need battery replacements?

Check this out.....

http://www.bmwworld.com/models/745h.htm

Leave those fuel cell and hybrid powered vehicles to the pencil neck geeks who would rather take mass transit in the first place if it were more effective.

Mike McKinney

SHYNE · #6 01-30-2003, 10:20 AM

I know the BMW 745H uses a small fuel cell to produce power consuming electronics and subsystems.

I believe this will be a temporary bridge to the mileage gap that is currently being worked on.

42+ volt electrical systems and extreme alternator/generators will solve this problem.

The lacking infastructure is holding this back for the time being, which is completely understandable, especially with the uncertain economic outlook for the automotive industry especially the next few years in terms of sales.

What do you guys think....positive or negative comments are welcome.

Mike McKinney

Jim Anderson · #7 01-30-2003, 10:53 AM

The unfortunate problem with running piston engins on hydrogen is the mandated goal of "zero" emissions. Piston engines always let at least a few molucules of oil past the rings and that makes them non-zero, even if they are just turning over on the starter.

Jim Anderson · #8 01-30-2003, 01:57 PM

The law says "zero" though.

leathermang · #9 01-30-2003, 02:03 PM

Change the goal to read " miniscule" amounts...

--------------------------------
Cook Dobermans, not Weiner dogs

Botnst · #10 03-10-2006, 08:03 PM

Fuels cells to change laptop use
By Mark Ward
Technology Correspondent, BBC News website, in Hanover

Antig fuel cells should be on sale by early 2007
Soon you could be running your laptop computer all day without a recharge as commercial versions of fuel cells go on sale.

At the Cebit technology fair in Hanover, Taiwanese hi-tech firm Antig said its fuel cells should be on the shelves of computer shops by early 2007.

The first versions of the methanol-using units should keep a laptop going for up to nine hours.

Fuel cell technology got a boost recently when international air flight regulators changed rules that banned passengers from carrying flammable methanol onto aircraft.

Linnet Tsai, deputy marketing manager for Antig, said the first fuel cells to go on sale would marry familiar lithium-ion batteries with the methanol-based technology.

Instead of storing power, fuel cells generate electricity by breaking down methanol via an electrochemical process.

The fuel cells can be recharged by topping them up with methanol from a cartridge.

These "hybrid" devices will work with existing laptops and will fit into the media bay - typically the location of the CD/DVD drive.

Laws changing

Ms Tsai said its manufacturing partner was currently evaluating the finished product - a process that could take up to six months.

Preparing sales channels and the delivery system so consumers find it easy to get hold of methanol cartridges will take a few more months.

The regulations are coming along, the product is coming along and the third part with the infrastructure for the cartridges is coming along too
Linnet Tsai, Antig
But she was hopeful that Antig fuel cells would be on sale by early 2007.

She added that international air travel laws would limit the attractiveness of fuel cells before that date.

"There used to be restrictions on passengers to take methanol on flights," said Ms Tsai.

But, she explained, the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) recently changed its guidelines to allow passengers to take methanol cartridges with them when they travel.

Ms Tsai said the change in regulations came into force in January 2007.

"The regulations are coming along, the product is coming along and the third part with the infrastructure for the cartridges is coming along, too," Ms Tsai added.

cmac2012 · #11 03-12-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedMech

Bush must have sum sinister plan to line his own pockets

Click here if you can handle reality

Keep in mind this is MSNBC probably the least friendly news channel to Republicans.

Not to be a pooper, but the link doesn't work.

Hydrogen sounds really nifty but it is not an energy source. More energy will be consumed somewhere, to make the hydrogen, if it's made by cracking water.

I heard a piece today on NPR's Living on Earth about deriving hydrogen from refinery coke, I think that's the correct term and spelling -- anyway, the leftover crap from refineries. The idea is to send the leftover CO2 from that process by pipeline to be used for pumping into old wells to push up more petro and hopefully keep the CO2 sequestered deep below for millenia. Some say the sequestration will work no problem, others are not so sure.

Bush and Cheney want to expand Nukular plants to produce the hydrogen.