Is this right? 4 gal Veg Oil + 1 gal RUG - mix in a gas can ? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rhodes2010 · #1 04-19-2006, 07:17 PM

Is this right? 4 gal Veg Oil + 1 gal RUG - mix in a gas can ?

So, if I buy 4 gallons of Veg Oil (fresh new) and put it in a 5 gallon gas
can and then add 1 gallon of Regular Unleaded Gasoline (RUG 87 Octane),
mix it up a little, just put it in the tank ?

Do I have to let it sit first ?

I am seeing $3.19 to $3.35 for Diesel here. Might as well get this oil thing figured out.

pawoSD · #2 04-19-2006, 07:20 PM

Do exactly what you said, it will run great and love it!!

I did an entire tankful a couple weeks ago....ran smooooth. Mileage will fall by about 2mpg or so, acceleration will be slightly (maybe 5%) slower since the veg oil has a little bit less energy in it, but otherwise it will be great! I loved it, you can't hear the car running when using that stuff!

With diesel at $3.15 it should save you quite a bit to use the soy oil/rug blend. Enjoy!

Oh, and you don't have to let it sit first. I just poured my cubie and a gallon of RUG into a 5gal diesel can, shook it up, and poured it right into the tank.

Diesel Giant · #3 04-19-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Do exactly what you said, it will run great and love it!!

I did an entire tankful a couple weeks ago....ran smooooth. Mileage will fall by about 2mpg or so, acceleration will be slightly (maybe 5%) slower since the veg oil has a little bit less energy in it, but otherwise it will be great! I loved it, you can't hear the car running when using that stuff!

With diesel at $3.15 it should save you quite a bit to use the soy oil/rug blend. Enjoy!

Oh, and you don't have to let it sit first. I just poured my cubie and a gallon of RUG into a 5gal diesel can, shook it up, and poured it right into the tank.

Man you guys have guts running veggie without heating it.

pawoSD · #4 04-19-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Giant

Man you guys have guts running veggie without heating it.

What makes you say that??

It seemed to run just fine on it....

Diesel Giant · #5 04-19-2006, 08:09 PM

Yes it will for a while. The pump can handle cold veggie, but the injectors are not designed to handle such a viscous fluid and cannot atomize it properly when cold. You will start to gum up your ring lands and then you will get increase wear in the cylinders etc. etc.

Keep in mind how much an engine rebuild is vs. what you are saving in fuel. Be safe and make bio or heat the oil.

pawoSD · #6 04-19-2006, 08:26 PM

But the mix with 1 Gallon of RUG in it its very easy-flowing, seems the same as diesel......it lightens it up. I'd never run just plain soy oil, but when mixed with RUG doesn't that make it light enough?

Diesel Giant · #7 04-19-2006, 08:37 PM

I am not trying to be a smart alec, but if all it took to run veggie was dumping RUG in it , then people would not go to the trouble to heat it. Putting RUG in your diesel is another no no anyway. Mercedes allows it for cold weather in an emergency to prevent gelling. Gas contains octane among other chemicals which resists burning. Diesels need cetane in the fuel to increase its combustion potential.

The problem with cold veggie is not gelling, but the whole molecular chaine of molecules that need to either be heated, or changed chemically which you are not doing.

Your "brew" is NOT a good idea. Yes its neat to run off of veggie, but are you saving enough to buy a new engine.

junqueyardjim · #8 04-19-2006, 09:04 PM

My favorite mix is 5 gallons of WVO (cold) with one quart of gas. I tried the i gallon to 5 gallon mix last year and it made my 300 Turbo buzz. Two much octane I think. I would like to ask Diesel Giant where he is getting is information from and if he in any way can back it up. I think it is all "heresay". Of course it is elementary that when the temperature is over 50 degrees F that after running just a mile or two you have built up quite a little heat in that oil by sending it through the IP, making for better atomization in the injectors. I know these guys selling these heat systems are real prophets of gloom for running cold grease. And of course you need heat if you are really going to screw around with it all year. But for me, I would never think of adding all that hardware to a good old car. I think really the only benefits of the heated systems are in the pockets of the guys who are making/selling them. So instead of forecasting all this gloom and doom of wrecked engines, ect, hey give me some facts, not BS.

pawoSD · #9 04-19-2006, 09:06 PM

I find that hard to believe that the injectors can't "atomize it as well" when my car actually started up/idled smooth BETTER from a cold start on my blend than on regular diesel(waaay less clatter and ran "happier")....and once warmed up it ran extremely smooth/quiet. Based on the environments these engines operate in around the world, I would say clean storebought soybean oil + some RUG and powerservice/cetane booster would be fine.....hmmmmmmmm.

I do have a source for potentially cheap/bulk actual soydiesel biodiesel, if I can get that at a good price I'll run that, I'd much rather use that anyways.

Austin85 · #10 04-19-2006, 09:10 PM

I don't know if my rings or whatever are being destroyed. But I do know my car runs as good as ever , Almost 9 months on WVO. It doesn't smoke. It doesn't burn a drop of oil. And it's faster than a school bus off the line.

vstech · #11 04-19-2006, 09:44 PM

good to know you are faster though.

John
I trust DG more than DIYer, but 9 months on WVO unheated is impressive.

pmari · #12 04-19-2006, 10:24 PM

I look to Hans Peter Schur and his Schur Ecofuel aka Tessol NADI (natural diesel). http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://members.aol.com/hpschur/raps.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2Bschur%2Becofuel%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG You'll have to put up with the terrible translation but the nuts and bolts are there.
This is why I thought your blend Jim, is a little thick. What is most interesting is that each time the 300D's engine was checked (prechamber taken off and inspected) it got cleaner, no carbon build up and no ringland gumming

(This was on SVO not WVO)

It has been done (and documented) successfully Russel. You may want to check out the infopop site for more banter on this topic.

So to answer the question.... An 80/20 (WVO/RUG) blend is close and when I emailed Schur, he said the OM617 will burn it just fine, without added heat.
It will depend on the individual vehicle if it's tolerated. Things like compression,injectors and valve lash effect the way the car will run. No, new oil does not have to sit once blended. Mix well, pour and go.

One way to check your blend is to look at the injectors once in a while, for excessive carbon build up.

Elktonjohn · #13 04-19-2006, 10:25 PM

I'm not so sure you all should dismiss Diesel Giant's opinions so quickly...I have noted that he really does know his stuff and I agree with his views on veggie oil as posted. I also am not trying to pick a fight but...I know my benz will run nicely on straight, cold, VO, WVO and ATF and a few other "strange" fuels but I have to wonder if it's a good idea to do so over any extended period of time. I have spent probably a hundred hours researching this alternative fuels topic and there are just too many honest opinions out there, from people who don't necessarily have anything to gain, and the concensus is that the only safe way to use veggie oil as a fuel is to heat it to a point where it's viscosity is near that of diesel ( which is approx 3 centistokes ) or to put it through the transesterfication process whereby the triglyceride molecules are cracked, the glycerine is removed from the esters and the esters re-attach to the alcohol used in the process...this is the synopsis of the process but the result is basically a thinner oil with a much lower viscosity and a lower specific gravity etc...a lighter oil. Viscosity matters because of the spray patterns, if the pattern is not uniform then you can get more fuel in places then your engine likes resulting in an un-even ignition and deposits of un-burnt fuel on cylinder walls, gunk collecting on piston rings and gawd know what else. I know that the diesel engine was originally designed to run on peanut oil, modern diesels have been designed to run on diesel but will run on almost anything...for a while... and that is the point. Just how much are you willing to gamble on the durability of your engine. I only hope that if/when your motor goes belly-up you will write a post here and let us know how long it lasted...I hope you can run forever on whatever you choose to burn and I'm all for burning the bean but I will remain a sceptic skeptic about the vo/rug or vo/kero blends, the magnasol thing and ATF thing...too good to be true ya know? My humble opinion, good luck guys.

WVOtoGO · #14 04-20-2006, 01:32 AM

Well - I’m not here to jump into the middle of anything between DG or anyone else, But…..here’s my facts:
I’ve been running my ‘80 300D no turbo with ~380K on it on WVO for a couple of years now. 25K miles at least. Stock everything. Two full sets of the seasons. In the winter here in N. Texas I cut it down with diesel or Jet-A. About 1 to 5 does fine. I’ve learned that the diesel will help induce the formation/separation of the wax from the VO, so next winter I’ll try something else. I’ve also learned that I may not be getting all the water out of the WVO before I put it in the tank, and may increase my odds of having a bio growth issue. I add Biobor to the stuff when I make it, and haven’t had a problem there yet. I did have the little nut drop off my sending unit, and thus drop the bottom plate of the unit into the tank. I pulled the tank to get it out and everything in there looked fine last month. Needed new rubber fuel lines back there anyway after 26 years, so why not pop 4 nuts and take a look inside and go after the plate and nut?
I also figure I’ve saved enough money over the miles to cover the parts for an overhaul that the thing is probably due here before too long anyway. Regardless of what the WVO may or may not be doing to the guts of my motor the first 250K I put on it weren’t exactly pampered miles.
On WVO - It runs smoother. Quieter. No increased oil burn. Starts easier (then it ever did on diesel just before I switched) anytime the outside air temp is over 50. Below that I mix it, and it takes about 3 more revs to fire. I also let the glow plugs heat longer after the light goes out before cranking. Big deal.
It smells better. Is better on the environment. I can let it idle in the garage or closed hangar when working on it without chocking to death. And, I can giggle my @ss off every time I drive by the pumps and see diesel prices on the rise.
So, I’m not taking any sides here. Nor am I going to say someone is right or wrong. But, I will say that I have no worries driving my car anywhere on WVO. Sure - I have been curious about what may or may not be going on with the guts of my motor running on WVO, but I havent been given any reason to go in and look yet. Nor any real time line for when “yet” is going to be here. And, I don’t know what most here call an “extended period”, nor how long “for a while” is. After 25K and 2 years, it’s still running better than it did on diesel. So I guess I just haven’t got there….yet.

Matt SD300 · #15 04-20-2006, 01:56 AM

What are guys waiting for?... 5 bucks a gal. for diesel??????????

I have gone close to 30k on RUG/WVO blends...BIOLINE!..

The car is running great & the truck is Faaaaast..Whoa! ...on BIOLINE