When will the WVO craze end? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

fireman1073 · #16 05-30-2006, 06:15 PM

Me just the average guy in my garage converted my benz to burn a fuel that can be grown in near limitless supply.

It does not add to the greenhouse effect everyone is worried about but is rather a cycle of create carbon dioxide when burned and use it when the plants grow.

It can put farmers to work in a large way.

the veg oil out there now is food grade so producing it to burn would be much cheaper.

Oh yeah--the foreign oil independence thing is a big issue too.

In my opinion it is the answer for the world fuel problem.

grow all you want!!!

Steve

Hatterasguy · #17 05-30-2006, 08:56 PM

Hopefully soon. Driving the price of diesel MB's up is a bit of a pita in one respect. Those amoung us that would be driving them if fuel was still $1 a gallon get screwed. However come insurance claim time it helps.

Elktonjohn · #18 05-31-2006, 01:14 AM

Personally I found my interest in MB began when researching WVO as an alternative fuel source. Being a Chevy/Olds guy I always figured a Benz was for that fat guy in a suit...then I bought one and I'm a skinny guy in well-worn bluejeans. I soon realised that I love an 83 300 SD and that I can homebrew biodiesel. Now I love the car so much that I am not happy just feeding it biodiesel...I have to make a quality ASTM grade biodiesel for the old gal. I believe that the VO/WVO fad is going to linger but in a Darwinian sort of way. As an emergency fuel...veggie will work. If veggie is heated and the rules on start-up and shut-down are followed and if it is de-watered and properly filtered and if it's not hydrogenated and if the viscosity is actually ok at 160^ and so on and so on...running your Benz on veggie should be ok. Otherwise it's only good for an emergency fuel and natural selection will cause the foolish and foolhardy to experience many an engine failure. It will probably work in similar fashion for the "I saw it on Dirty Jobs" biodiesel brewers who think good enuf is good enough. I am slowly learning that making good biodiesel is truely an art-form of sorts. Any fool like me can make biodiesel...but making it right just aint easy.
At $3.00/gal the fads will probably persist, sorry, but there may be a few who actually try to combine the fad and fiction with a love for the car itself...if that makes any sense. Right fine and right forgiving vee-hickle if you ask me.

Matt SD300 · #19 05-31-2006, 02:52 AM

Old300ds quote...Just doing my part to boycott the Iraq war.
_________________________________________________________________

Did you know that only 8% of the oil we use is imported from the mid east?..

Theres much bigger picture....... SHOW ME THE MONEY

..It aint about how:" WE NEED(USA)" mid east oil...It's about.. how the rest of the world NEEDS there oil!

Old300D · #20 05-31-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

Old300ds quote...Just doing my part to boycott the Iraq war.
_________________________________________________________________

Did you know that only 8% of the oil we use is imported from the mid east?..

Theres much bigger picture....... SHOW ME THE MONEY

..It aint about how:" WE NEED(USA)" mid east oil...It's about.. how the rest of the world NEEDS there oil!

Take a longer view -- any reduction in oil use will reduce our dependance on the global market.

coldwar · #21 05-31-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

The craze will end when a large number of these old diesels seize up from starting and running on cold oil, and that could be soon with all the "experimenting" going on.

Any real evidence of this seizing up?

origamitect · #22 05-31-2006, 11:54 AM

If I'm reading the govt publications correctly, we import 2/3 of the oil we use. Who cares if the oil is from the mideast - relying on oil imports from anywhere is a risky proposition as petroleum becomes more dear. Supplying our own fuel from our own land, whether its by traditional crop or algae isn't a craze, its just good sense.

aklim · #23 05-31-2006, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by origamitect

If I'm reading the govt publications correctly, we import 2/3 of the oil we use. Who cares if the oil is from the mideast - relying on oil imports from anywhere is a risky proposition as petroleum becomes more dear. Supplying our own fuel from our own land, whether its by traditional crop or algae isn't a craze, its just good sense.

Oil is more than just fuel. There are many products that you cannot grow. To use crop or algae would mean it would reqire a major shift to diesel. Is diesel for everyone? No. Don't get me wrong, I like my 99 E300. However, if that car were destroyed, I would go for a gas model unless we do a lot of long distance commuting. Also, in this economy, if somebody tanks, we tank too. So, even if you are fossil fuel independent and others are not, well.....

Old300D · #24 05-31-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldwar

Any real evidence of this seizing up?

There is plenty of evidence that cold vegetable oil will accumulate in the piston rings and eventually cause a loss of compression. Blowby also gets into the sump oil and increases its viscosity.

aklim · #25 05-31-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

There is plenty of evidence that cold vegetable oil will accumulate in the piston rings and eventually cause a loss of compression. Blowby also gets into the sump oil and increases its viscosity.

How is it cold tho? As I see in my 606, the fuel comes to the engine block and goes into some sort of radiator that is bolted to the head. Seems that radiator heats up the fuel when the hot coolant goes to the radiator.

TwitchKitty · #26 05-31-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

There is plenty of evidence that cold vegetable oil will accumulate in the piston rings and eventually cause a loss of compression. Blowby also gets into the sump oil and increases its viscosity.

This is the story that the sellers of heated kits want you to believe. The evidence that they cite is from usually from direct injected engines or anecdotal. Some diesel engine manufacturers have actually stated that running their engines on veg oil is acceptable.

I don't feel like linking it again, have done so many times here, but check the suitability page at vegburner.co.uk for a write-up on veg oil and coking in MB.

I think the heated systems will be responsible for many MB diesels landing in the junkyard. All of that misguided hacking and cutting is too often a one-way trip. Blenders will kill some cars too. It will be good for the short term used parts supply. Hold on to those pristine MB diesels, they may be more rare than anyone ever anticipated.

Anyone who is too stupid or too lazy to search an internet forum will not maintain a vehicle running on alternate fuel for very long.

Hatterasguy · #27 05-31-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How is it cold tho? As I see in my 606, the fuel comes to the engine block and goes into some sort of radiator that is bolted to the head. Seems that radiator heats up the fuel when the hot coolant goes to the radiator.

Correct the 603/606 have fuel heaters. But the 617's lack this.

I have seen a few WVO set up's, never seen one that wasn't a hack job or in a car that didn't have one leg in the junk yard already. But maybe its just me, love to see a nicely engineered one that looked factory.

Old300D · #28 05-31-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

This is the story that the sellers of heated kits want you to believe. The evidence that they cite is from usually from direct injected engines or anecdotal. Some diesel engine manufacturers have actually stated that running their engines on veg oil is acceptable.

I don't feel like linking it again, have done so many times here, but check the suitability page at vegburner.co.uk for a write-up on veg oil and coking in MB.

I think the heated systems will be responsible for many MB diesels landing in the junkyard. All of that misguided hacking and cutting is too often a one-way trip. Blenders will kill some cars too. It will be good for the short term used parts supply. Hold on to those pristine MB diesels, they may be more rare than anyone ever anticipated.

Anyone who is too stupid or too lazy to search an internet forum will not maintain a vehicle running on alternate fuel for very long.

I agree. There are a large number of factors to consider when attempting to run an engine long term on a thick sticky fuel like vegetable oil. If you don't know what you are doing, you might still get 50k on an engine, but that's an expensive experiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How is it cold tho? As I see in my 606, the fuel comes to the engine block and goes into some sort of radiator that is bolted to the head. Seems that radiator heats up the fuel when the hot coolant goes to the radiator.

All engines are cold on startup, unless you preheat the engine to combustion chamber temperatures.

coldwar · #29 06-01-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

There are a large number of factors to consider when attempting to run an engine long term on a thick sticky fuel like vegetable oil. If you don't know what you are doing, you might still get 50k on an engine, but that's an expensive experiment.

All engines are cold on startup, unless you preheat the engine to combustion chamber temperatures.

As one who has searched many forums, and taken note of a few horror stories, I think I've come to a few conclusions.
- "Sticky" is a key word here. No matter if heated or stone cold, new or restaurant waste, veg oil has compounds that create a sticky film. Pre-heating only reduces the viscosity, but it does not eliminate the stickeyness.
- I have yet to see on any forum that anyone has experienced a ruined engine by using SVO or WVO. The coking effect- yes. I've been there myself. There is a symptom that appears from coking long before the piston rings are affected- that being sporadic "pinging" or "nailing" at highway cruising speed (ie- light acceleration) caused by coking of the injectors. Immediate appropriate action is required- go back to straight Diesel, and use the best injector cleaning method you can find- don't wait.
- BioDiesel is the best solution to prevent coking- the process gets those sticky polymers out of the base oil. However, homebrewing Bio is not for everyone, being by far the most labor intensive, and dependant on a free source of base oil, due to other high costs of making it.

1983/300CD · #30 06-01-2006, 08:46 AM

Yeah, I know the sky is falling and all that.

How is it that Europeans have been doing it for years?