Butchering 123's for WVO - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #31 07-16-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miner

I mean, for some people speed/performance is the thing. And they do everything short of bolting on a jet engine to try to achieve it. Others want free fuel and/or a clear consience and are willing to wade around in vats of lard for it. And some guys would glue the original window sticker back on if that would bring their car closer to stock form. Debating which way is the right way is like arguing religion. It is pretty much pointless and will only serve to irritate all parties involved.

Yeah very well said.

TwitchKitty · #32 07-16-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miner

It's also a shame when a good car is ruined because somebody thought they could get better performance by tweaking the ALDA and bypassing the overboost protection, etc. and end up overdoing it.

Don't you love it when they discuss tweaking the ALDA for a richer mixture? I read that as one step closer to the junkyard.

Hatterasguy · #33 07-16-2006, 10:46 AM

If not done correctly it is. One or two turns really increase pre turbo boost pick up. But if you want any power you have to do it right. That means taking time and money to install an EGT guage, and get some good readings before doing anything.

I have seen some pretty butchard intercooler projects, but the good ones look darn close to factory.

TwitchKitty · #34 07-16-2006, 01:24 PM

You missed the point, as usual. If they mention richer mixture they should keep their hands off of a diesel until their brains catch up.

Hatterasguy · #35 07-16-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

You missed the point, as usual.

Turning up the ALDA increases fuel enrichment at a lower RPM. It isn't really the proper way to do this, you are tricking the IP.

I am sensing you have a problem with me, either lets deal with it or get off my back.

#36 07-16-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

they should keep their hands off of a diesel until their brains catch up.

As should those who say they filled up the gas tank.

TwitchKitty · #37 07-16-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Turning up the ALDA increases fuel enrichment at a lower RPM. It isn't really the proper way to do this, you are tricking the IP.

I am sensing you have a problem with me, either lets deal with it or get off my back.

I don't have a problem with you, you have a problem period - argue first, learn later, maybe. You comment on subjects when you should be researching. Go find the proper air/fuel ratio for a diesel engine and then come back and tell me about a rich mixture.

Read about the pot calling the kettle black while you are at it.

pleiades · #38 07-16-2006, 09:57 PM

I bought my W123 originally to use as a WVO project. Now that I've had it, and really read up on VO fuels, I've come to realize that I don't want to take any chances ruining this great car with bad fuel. At the very least, I'm going to fully restore it to the best possible condition running on diesel (#2 or B5) before trying anything else.

This forum is hands down the most useful for solid information about WVO (or anything, for that matter). Dedicated WVO forums are full of enthusiasts, but some people are asking if the OM617 is carbuereted, and others are answering in the affirmative.

greasybenz · #39 07-16-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pleiades

Dedicated WVO forums are full of enthusiasts, but some people are asking if the OM617 is carbuereted, and others are answering in the affirmative.

hah! sounds familiar

Hatterasguy · #40 07-16-2006, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

I don't have a problem with you, you have a problem period - argue first, learn later, maybe. You comment on subjects when you should be researching. Go find the proper air/fuel ratio for a diesel engine and then come back and tell me about a rich mixture.

Read about the pot calling the kettle black while you are at it.

Oh and you know everything?

I have made no such comments directed towards you. Get off my back.

TwitchKitty · #41 07-16-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Oh and you know everything?

I never claimed to, those are your words, your childish words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I have made no such comments directed towards you. Get off my back.

The other day you invited me to move out of the country and invited me to quit posting on this board. I think you have a problem with me, not the other way around. Next time I post something, just assume that you don't understand it, 'cause you probably won't, and leave it alone. Problem solved.

Hatterasguy · #42 07-16-2006, 10:48 PM

Well I only hope that one day my little kid brain is developed enough to understand your amazing posts.

biopete · #43 07-17-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I think we are seeing two sides of the MB world clash hear. On one side you have the enthusiast who love these cars, couldn't care less about WVO and would still be driving them if fuel was $1 per gallon.

Then you have the WVO crowed who just wants a $1k POS to screw with, and butcher.

Of course their are many areas in the middle, like anything.

I come from the enthusiast side, I simply would never consider a WVO conversion. Firstly because I don't want to mess with oil, secondly I don't want to spend my time messing with said oil. Heck I'll probably buy a gas MB next I really couldn't care less about WVO honestly. But like anything its a hobby and some people like it, I respect that.

I have seen a few WVO cars, only one was done well. Most seem to be shot and have systems done on the cheap, back yard engineer type systems. They all seem to smell as well, frankly I don't find the odor that spilled oil causes pleasant. But if someone buys a $500 300D as a cheap throw away experiment car, and learns to love MB's because of it, well I guess their is a good side to this whole thing.

Still it hurts to see a W126/W123 trashed in the name of WVO.

It hurts to see a W126/W123 trashed in the name of anything.

WVO does not kill cars. People do. I have seen more trashed W123/W126's that did not run off of WVO than did. In fact, greasers have revived their cars more than anything probably. This butchering you refer to is not a symptom of WVO so much as it is a symtom of newbies doing a job with minimal resources and/or possibly extreme anal retentiveness on your part.

It is really hard NOT to be enthusiastic about these cars. Environmentally friendly free fuel just gives one more to be enthusiastic about.

And wouldn't any real diesel enthusiast would passionate about SVO seeing as Rudolph Diesel was so passionate about it?

Especially in these times. Also, there is a great deal of promise and evidence that these engines will last on WVO and biodiesel. This is a time where the Diesel engine could save the automobile from an even earlier extinction. I think everyone should thank us greasers for doing the experimenting that the car manufacturers did not do or will not reveal.

I think you are right in that there is clash of culture here. However i think more people than you think would love to cherry out and preserve these cars if they had the money and time. ESPECIALLY greasers. And although they may have gotten into an MB initially because of the great diesel engine, they love the rest of the car too. The fact that this culture clash is barely noticable most of the time (at least to me) is a testament to this forum and to the car. Too bad the rulers of the world can not get together in an MB forum. Thanks mercedeshop and everyone for the great forums.

Old300D · #44 07-17-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biopete

It hurts to see a W126/W123 trashed in the name of anything.

WVO does not kill cars. People do. I have seen more trashed W123/W126's that did not run off of WVO than did. In fact, greasers have revived their cars more than anything probably. This butchering you refer to is not a symptom of WVO so much as it is a symtom of newbies doing a job with minimal resources and/or possibly extreme anal retentiveness on your part.

It is really hard NOT to be enthusiastic about these cars. Environmentally friendly free fuel just gives one more to be enthusiastic about.

And wouldn't any real diesel enthusiast would passionate about SVO seeing as Rudolph Diesel was so passionate about it?

Especially in these times. Also, there is a great deal of promise and evidence that these engines will last on WVO and biodiesel. This is a time where the Diesel engine could save the automobile from an even earlier extinction. I think everyone should thank us greasers for doing the experimenting that the car manufacturers did not do or will not reveal.

I think you are right in that there is clash of culture here. However i think more people than you think would love to cherry out and preserve these cars if they had the money and time. ESPECIALLY greasers. And although they may have gotten into an MB initially because of the great diesel engine, they love the rest of the car too. The fact that this culture clash is barely noticable most of the time (at least to me) is a testament to this forum and to the car. Too bad the rulers of the world can not get together in an MB forum. Thanks mercedeshop and everyone for the great forums.

From a greaser to an enthusiast. I testify to this. Well said.

vlayton · #45 07-17-2006, 05:02 PM

Commercial Biodiesel is the best hope for compromise we have in my opinion.

It going to take a very, very long time "in cumulative operational hours" at for the history of vegetable based fuels to catch up. Petroleum diesel is currently the most proven, by sheer volume.

As an amatuer student historian of all cars, I am of the opinion Mercedes is the best, in historical retention and technological development. No one has been making diesel CARS longer. While commercial biodiesel is extremely promising, with ratification from Mercedes, Bosch and others that it is NOT harmful and suitable within limited percentages, vegetable oil has been tested repeatedly over the last hundred years, and not given a clean bill of health yet. I'm sure Mb has plenty of experimentation under their belts themselves. Just because Rudolf had function success with organic oil doesn't really mean much other than it can be done. We need motors DESIGNED to run vegetable oil perhaps....

Another reason to believe MB has been down this road is evident in their latest diesel technology, BluTec. This system actually incorporates the urea (urine) of fish to combat the motor's emmissions. Who would'a seen that coming? If the manufacturer says E-85 will be just fine in your gasoline car, one should be compelled to believe it. So if they say "5%" D6751 is safe" I believe that too, and would like to stay within that, although even I doubt there would be any serious long term issues with B10-15.

True, cars are abused/neglected all the time, and I believe the accounts of car-caring folks who use the veg oil. I see 4 clear cut levels to the fuel thing. It's not just "petrol or bio" the latter term lumping everything but pure petrol.

Simply put, the evident reasearch seems to show

Vegetable oil will make a run diesel run...

Processing/thinning/modifying the vegetable oil will make it run better and longer...

Commercially intended synthectic diesel produced from new vegetation stock tops that, and is standardized and approved by all the major players and experts behind the science and the machines...

Petroleum diesel, based on over a century of experience (or app. 65% of the industrial age) has so far yielded the best solution for power for the buck

I have recently realized I'm not no much a super purist for this reason, but for a host of others.

So however you come to like the car isn't so important. I'm just offering what I think is the best advice now that you have it and "love" it. (My "love" for these cars embodies an emotional feeling of many aspects, including my life experiences with the cars, but not any one physical car as an entity)

Plus I really don't like the smell of grease or used cooking oil. I would actually prefer diesel. I admit there is an element of nostalgia., but I rarely can smell much of it anyway, only if the things's running in the garage or you get a wiff of it at start up and you're downwind of it. I always figured that was just the opinion of those with over-sensitive nostrils anyway. (My friends mom suffers from that)

Regards,