Blackstone Labs - Good BioDiesel Article - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

87tdwagen · #16 07-12-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

Aluminum is 4 x average
Chromium is 3 x average
Iron is 6.5 x average
Copper is 3 x average
Nickel is 6 x average

The above are all wear metals from various parts of the engine.

Silicon is 2 x average
Sodium is 24 x average
Viscosity is out of range.

Other than that, looks pretty good.

All kidding aside, I suspect that this engine was pretty much clapped out before it ever saw WVO. The WVO is just the final nail in its coffin.

Palangi,
Thanks for the info and I do agree with your observation, my contention is still the same, Blackstone did this test and compared Biodiesel (maybe WVO) against a set of specs for a motor oil, say Rotella. Nice but how relevant is any of this? What I mean is the Bio was never intended to be used as a crankcase lube, so what good does it do to compare it against a set of specs for which it was not intended to be used?

Crankcase oil has a certain criteria to meet to be considered a good crankcase oil.
Bio and WVO used as a fuel should meet a criteria standard for FUEL, not crankcase oil. As such I cannot see the value in a Blackstone lab report on WVO or Bio as providing a valuable analysis on the quality of these oils as a Fuel.

Just curious to see if there is a lab process out there that is accessible to us to compare samples of (homebrew) bio, WVO against diesel and measure the fuel quality of these samples against no.2 diesel. IMO this would be a better gauge of bio or WVO use as a fuel, and whether the blends many use are actually helpful or cause damage.

If anyone knows of something like this please, do tell
Thanks

Maroon 300D · #17 07-12-2006, 01:52 PM

I don't think the person who sent the sample in for analysis was using WVO as crankcase oil. They were using it as fuel. As TX said, the crankcase oil will pick up particles from the fuel, thereby changing its properties to some degree.

The Blackstone people seem to think that properly made Bio D doesn't cause any more wear than regular diesel (and I think it would cause less), but that improperly made Bio D or inferior VO can.

TX76513 · #18 07-12-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

I don't think the person who sent the sample in for analysis was using WVO as crankcase oil. They were using it as fuel. As TX said, the crankcase oil will pick up particles from the fuel, thereby changing its properties to some degree.

The Blackstone people seem to think that properly made Bio D doesn't cause any more wear than regular diesel (and I think it would cause less), but that improperly made Bio D or inferior VO can.

Correct, my idea is that while engine oil analysis is good, there is some added benefit knowing to watch for other particulates in the oil. Maybe just an added security blanket knowing that your brew is OK.

87tdwagen · #19 07-12-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

I don't think the person who sent the sample in for analysis was using WVO as crankcase oil. They were using it as fuel. As TX said, the crankcase oil will pick up particles from the fuel, thereby changing its properties to some degree.

The Blackstone people seem to think that properly made Bio D doesn't cause any more wear than regular diesel (and I think it would cause less), but that improperly made Bio D or inferior VO can.

Thanks Ralph and TX, I went back an reread the Blackstone summary alaysis at the bottom of the report and it states:

This person mentioned on the oil slip that he was running vegetable oil in his engine, though he didn’t specify what type. From the looks of it, we think he’s running waste vegetable oil. We can’t say for sure that the sodium is coming from used fryer oil, but we think it is. The poor quality of the oil is causing high upper-end wear, as you can see in the aluminum, chrome, and iron levels. We have seen plenty of engines running on biodiesel that look just fine, so we think this is a homebrew that’s not getting the job done.

The first part of the statement: he was running vegetable oil in his engine ; is fairly non-descript, was he running veg oil in the crankcase or was he running veg oil as a fuel? a bit unclear on that, but in reading on they keep pointing to the poor quality of the oil causing all of the extra wear. This leads me to believe that he was using the veg oil as a lube. I do agree with both you and TX that poor fuel will allow other contaminants to get into the crankcase oil without doubt, but how much will really get mixed in to throw off the test results by such a large degree.

The real concern was the sodium content, since salt will not disolve in oil I have a hard time believeing that aside from clogging up the fuel filters, damaging the injectors if it got into the cylinder after firing still somehow made it by the rings and into the crankcase throwing the readings up 24 times normal values. If this is the case he's got bigger problems yet

Sorry to harp on this thread, but my personal opinion is that the oil sample sent in was either WO not yet used but intended to be used as a fuel and sent in for testing purposes only, or...the sample was WVO and actually used as crankase lube (stupid) and the resulting increased wear is due to the poor lube quality of the WVO. The extra sodium could have already been present in the oil before entering it into the crankcase.

If he was using good quality crankcase oil and simply used crappy WVO as fuel, I can expect some cross contamination but upper cylinder wear would not be so pronounced...if his crankcase oil was of good quality there would be extremely little that could make it through bypassing filters, combustion and rings and then lead to high bearing and upper cylinder wear.

Just my $0.02. I will be sending Blackstone a before after sample of Rotella T syn dino vs. WVO and see how much does crosscontaminate and keep you posted on results. On the other hand, I did really want to find a place to test the fuel quality of my filtered WVO for peace of mind.

Cheers

TX76513 · #20 07-12-2006, 02:25 PM

Since the article is Spotlight on Bio-Diesel and the content is about Bio D as a fuel. I am assuming the writers content is about particulates in engine oil produced from WVO/SVO used as a fuel.

Old300D · #21 07-12-2006, 05:33 PM

If WVO had been used as a crankcase lubricant, you can bet the WHOLE analysis would have been completely whacked. Viscosity and additives would have not registered on any scale -- it would be VERY obvious.