Biodiesel? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

brightbus · #1 08-31-2006, 10:50 PM

there are alot of things going on about biodiesel, so read this

http://www.gobiodiesel.org/index.php?title=FAQ

they say they sell Biodiesel to nonmembers for .75/gallon that sure as heck beats 3.00/gal for diesel here in lex, ky

#2 08-31-2006, 10:58 PM

Interesting, but it isn't clear to me if they are selling BD from new oil or from WVO. This price makes it sound like WVO, or they would be losing money on the deal.

brightbus · #3 08-31-2006, 11:01 PM

dont know about wvo, but its not svo cuz they say so

i hear these terms quite often around here, they talk about b20 and b100

they also say that biodiesel requires no alterations to your car, except for new fuel lines, and new fuel filters

http://www.gobiodiesel.org/index.php?title=FAQ#What_is_the_difference_between_biodiesel_and_straight-vegetable-oil_.28SVO.29_powered_cars.3F

edit: did some searching, they use wvo

#4 08-31-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightbus

dont know about wvo, but its not svo cuz they say so

i hear these terms quite often around here, they talk about b20 and b100

they also say that biodiesel requires no alterations to your car, except for new fuel lines, and new fuel filters

http://www.gobiodiesel.org/index.php?title=FAQ#What_is_the_difference_between_biodiesel_and_straight-vegetable-oil_.28SVO.29_powered_cars.3F

B20 and b100 refer to the percentage of bio-diesel, for example b20 is 20% bio-diesel and 80% petro-diesel.

I think they said that they are not using straight (unprocessed) SVO because is can cause damage. However, if you are going to process bio-diesel, you need to start with some type of oil. I believe that commercial bio-diesel is processed from new oil, and the cost is close to petro-diesel. Some folks are making bio-diesel by processing used oil (WVO), resulting in a much lower cost because the oil is "free." If they are selling bio-diesel for a very low price, I suspect it is processed from WVO.

In warm weather, you can simply put bio-diesel in your tank without any significant modifications. In cold weather you have to pay attention to the fuel gelling.

Biglex · #5 08-31-2006, 11:17 PM

Actually they are selling straight WVO for 75 cents a gallon to non member. Dont know if it still needs to be filtered or not though.

#6 08-31-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biglex

Actually they are selling straight WVO for 75 cents a gallon to non member. Dont know if it still needs to be filtered or not though.

OK, I missed that. That's quite a bit different than selling BD for $.75 per gallon.

brightbus · #7 08-31-2006, 11:23 PM

if you do some further reading, i think they have some type of plant and they do all the conversion themselves

Elktonjohn · #8 09-01-2006, 12:33 AM

$0.75/gal is about right for filtered WVO...wvo/yellow grease has a market value of about $0.10/gal but dewatered and filtered wvo...under a buck/gal is good. No way is this a biodiesel price/gal even if it is from WVO as the prices for the alcohol/caustic soda alone leave zero room for profit. Maybe a mid size biodiesel producer can process B100 for $0.75/gal but that is at cost under the best of conditions. Of course, I could be wrong...?!?

Old300D · #9 09-01-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elktonjohn

$0.75/gal is about right for filtered WVO...wvo/yellow grease has a market value of about $0.10/gal but dewatered and filtered wvo...under a buck/gal is good. No way is this a biodiesel price/gal even if it is from WVO as the prices for the alcohol/caustic soda alone leave zero room for profit. Maybe a mid size biodiesel producer can process B100 for $0.75/gal but that is at cost under the best of conditions. Of course, I could be wrong...?!?

You are mostly right. I hear methanol prices just took a huge jump, but my last purchase was $2.23/gallon and my caustic was $1.20/pound. This puts materials cost per gallon of biodiesel at $0.51. No one in their right mind would sell biodiesel for $0.75/gallon even if they made $0.25 per gallon over materials cost.

BillA · #10 09-01-2006, 05:09 PM

just to pick nits re terminology
"biodiesel" meets the ASTM spec

processed WVO (or SVO) w/o certs is just that
I expect another 100k+ on my engines, not going to trash them with junk fuel
(where junk fuel = so-called biodiesel w/o certs)

C Sean Watts · #11 09-01-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillA

just to pick nits re terminology
"biodiesel" meets the ASTM spec

processed WVO (or SVO) w/o certs is just that
I expect another 100k+ on my engines, not going to trash them with junk fuel
(where junk fuel = so-called biodiesel w/o certs)

UNLESS and UNTIL The 'home brewer' gets QC'd/tested to ASTM standards. It's far from free, but quite possible.

BillA · #12 09-01-2006, 08:35 PM

FAITH is a wonderful thing

I have been involved in the design/equip spec'ing of commercial "biodiesel" facilities for a year or so;
spec fuel is a challenge even with a constant feed stock
- with WVO ??
do some reading, not likely at all

I'll 'eat crow' when I hear of multiple home brewers who have put 100K on their engines
25k is not even a start, think truckers and get a grip on longevity

Elktonjohn · #13 09-02-2006, 11:48 PM

I tend to agree with Bill A...even though I hate to admit it. I've been experimenting with WVO based biodiesel for almost a year now and while I have most things at least close to ASTM, no GC yet, I am sure it will be difficult to get one batch to pass the test and near impossible to be able to pass every time. I have to ask...which of the many ASTM criteria is the hardest to meet BillA?

greasybenz · #14 09-02-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elktonjohn

I tend to agree with Bill A...even though I hate to admit it. I've been experimenting with WVO based biodiesel for almost a year now and while I have most things at least close to ASTM, no GC yet, I am sure it will be difficult to get one batch to pass the test and near impossible to be able to pass every time. I have to ask...which of the many ASTM criteria is the hardest to meet BillA?

have you tried testing your fuel specs? b100supply.com has that PHlip test to see if you are within ASTM specs. It costs about $5 a test so its cheap enough to test every batch of bio and know that you are putting good stuff in your car.

Elktonjohn · #15 09-03-2006, 12:08 AM

Nope, I had not heard of it...sounds like a pH test...PHlip?...maybe a pH and lipids test? I'll look at them next and order a few. I know my pH is too low...like 6.00 at best and that's when it still has some tiny amounts of soap left...lower when totally washed. My conversion rate is pretty high as it comes very very close to passing re-conversion tests...maybe 90% but not much better. I'm super concerned about water content always...what a bear that is, plus you just don't know what else is in WVO to begin with and you gotta suspect sodium/potassium...MSG??? Excess methanol is a question mark but I don't sweat that too much personally...Mono, Di, Tri glycerides, water and pH are my only worries...like that's not enough. UGH...but I'll look at that PHLIP test at B100...thanks Greasybenz!