GreaseCar WVO System - Solenoid Amperage Problem? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Blevinsax · #31 10-16-2006, 06:44 PM

I tested my theory again this morning, however I think I was a little too impatient...

Last night as I purged the system, I also removed the cap from the grease tank. I left the tank cap off all night and started the car with it off this morning. It started fine on diesel, then (probably too soon) I switched to grease. It did stall, but when I restarted it the prime was very short - it started up almost right away, very close to a normal start. I think that was encouraging because there was not a huge air leak in the fuel line. Perhaps it stalled because the grease was still cold - that's what I mean by too soon - I was too impatient and switched to grease before the engine/coolant was very warm. Yesterday when I started and switched to grease, I waited about 8-10 minutes to let the engine/coolant warm up. I'll try it again tomorrow morning and I'll try to be a little more patient.

I found a tool to remove the small metal cap from the vent on the greasecar tank this morning. I could not see any blockage, but I ran a drill bit through the little holes just to clear out any possible blockages, so hopefully that will help.

Lonesome · #32 10-17-2006, 08:11 AM

keep us posted and good luck!

josh

P.E.Haiges · #33 10-17-2006, 11:19 AM

Matt L,

Voltage is a commonly used term for potential difference. Amperage is not a commonly used term.

U could use wattage but like voltage and current, power is the preferred term for voltage times current.

P E H

Diesel Dan · #34 10-17-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blevinsax

I tested my theory again this morning, however I think I was a little too impatient...
Yesterday when I started and switched to grease, I waited about 8-10 minutes to let the engine/coolant warm up. I'll try it again tomorrow morning and I'll try to be a little more patient.

I think 8-10 minutes should have been fine. My procedure is to watch my engine temp guage. Once it reaches 90 degrees (normal operating temp for my car), I give it another minute or so and then switch over to SVO. By this time, I'm about 5 minutes into my trip (from a cold start). I have no problems with stalling, or rough running. I think 10 minutes is a conservative amount of time. Your oil should be plenty warm by then.

Blevinsax · #35 10-17-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Dan

I think 8-10 minutes should have been fine. My procedure is to watch my engine temp guage. Once it reaches 90 degrees (normal operating temp for my car), I give it another minute or so and then switch over to SVO. By this time, I'm about 5 minutes into my trip (from a cold start). I have no problems with stalling, or rough running. I think 10 minutes is a conservative amount of time. Your oil should be plenty warm by then.

My 350SD rarely makes it up to 80C - I've been switching over to WVO at about 70C, sometimes a little lower because it takes so long to reach even that temp. Even today with extended highway driving at 80mph, I never topped 80C. When I bought the car, it had a temp problem where it would sometimes go as high as 115C, but new aux fans, fan clutch, radiator flush, and new coolant stopped that problem.

I have no problems with rough running - actually the car runs a lot smoother on grease than it does on diesel. I am pretty sure my injectors need some attention - and they are certainly on the short list; I just have to take things one at a time. I just have to figure out how/why I am getting an air leak into the grease fuel line. From what I have seen here, it could easily be the GreaseCar soleoids simply leaking, but I would like to know for sure.

Diesel Dan · #36 10-17-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blevinsax

I just have to figure out how/why I am getting an air leak into the grease fuel line. From what I have seen here, it could easily be the GreaseCar soleoids simply leaking, but I would like to know for sure.

Seems like there's got to be a way to "bench-test" those things. Disconnect them from everything (except leave the electrical in place) and then manually suck fuel through them using a mityvac attached to the output with about 2 feet of clear hose, so you can see air bubbles. You can also check for internal cross-over leakage by putting the intake hoses in two different cups of fuel and see if it is drawing from the correct one when powered or not, or if it is drawing from both simultaneously (which is what I suspect mine does to some extent). It would be a bit of a hassle to run through this process, but at least you would rule out solenoid leakage as the problem.

You might also want to consider switching out your hoses for clear hose so you can see where the air is coming from. That's definitely on my list of things to do. I think polyethelene hose is the most heat resistant and most tolerant of biodiesel, when it comes to the clear hose choices. I don't know how long it lasts though, not having any personal experience with it. Polyurethane I think is next in line, being slightly less heat tollerant. I don't think vinyl/PVC will work at all.

WD8CDH · #37 10-18-2006, 07:56 AM

If you have a strong vacuum in your system, what looks like air could be water coming out of solution in the oil and "boiling" in the lines at the low pressure. Just like the bubbles in a bottle of soda when you open it.

Blevinsax · #38 10-18-2006, 12:40 PM

Well, I don't quite know what to make of it at this point, but I went out this morning and started up the Benz.... let it run for about 15 minutes and warm up to about 70C.... flipped the switch.... and it worked. It didn't stall, didn't hickup, nothing. Just sat there running perfectly.

Now I'm starting to get suspicious.... maybe my car is haunted.... by an extremely annoying little specter.... maybe a gremlin.... How do you say 'gremlin' in German?

Maybe I need an exorcist instead of a mechanic...

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD8CDH

If you have a strong vacuum in your system, what looks like air could be water coming out of solution in the oil and "boiling" in the lines at the low pressure. Just like the bubbles in a bottle of soda when you open it.

As far as water in my WVO, although I will not absolutely deny the possibility, I have built a pretty comprehensive cold filtration system with two water separators and quadruple filtration down to 2 microns.

Since I cannot upload the same pictures again, here is a link to a previous thread with info and photos of my filtrations system:

What are the chances Veggie conversion might damage my engine?

WD8CDH · #39 10-18-2006, 01:07 PM

Depending on the oil supply, cold filtration, waterblock filters and water separators may not remove hardly any of the suspended water. I found 5 day settling at 120 degrees removed the water when nothing measurable was removed with room temperature settling for a month and filtering with a Racor 2 micron water block filter.

Blevinsax · #40 10-19-2006, 06:04 PM

Update:

Two nights ago after I filled my grease tank I went through my GreaseCar system and tightened up all the hose clamp connections - just because it seemed like something obvious I could do. Well, *fingers crossed as not to jinx anything* it has run fine since then. It ran great today - no problems, so I'll update here again if my problem persists/returns.

About the water in WVO - I am very interested in determining if I still have H20 in my WVO (That could be a good title for a country/western song - "I got H20 in my WVO... maybe not...) Anyhow, I have been told that I am in a good environment to be running WVO because we have relatively high year-round temperatures and extremely low humidity. I spoke with a couple diesel shops and they said they never have to empty their water separators because the air here is so dry. I don't know if the same applies to WVO or not (I am aware they're not cooking water-containing food in their diesel prior to filtering) but hopefully I am getting some benefit from living in the middle of the Mojave desert (besides the appreciation on my real estate!

)

Blevinsax · #41 10-26-2006, 04:31 PM

I posted over at the GreaseCar Forum when I initially posted this thread, and I finally got a response - and it was very helpful! I'll post the response here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNLisa from GreaseCare Forum

Hi Rusty-

Sorry I didn't see your thread until now, I would have shown you some love right away. I probably would have forgotten to mention the vacuum in the tank thing, though so it's just as well that you had to think for yourself on that one.

#1 Your car has the most aggressive lift pump I've ever seen. It could suck a golf ball thru a water hose, and at 50 miles per hour. If there is the SLIGHTEST place where it can suck air, IT WILL.

#2 There are NPT fittings for the fuel lines to go into and out of the filter. These can be tight such that they will not suck air, but will allow air in at ambient pressure. This will cause the fuel line to lose prime, as the fuel dribbles back toward the tank. If you don't care to fix it, and are not experienceing any other problems, you can put a check valve in the fuel line just before the filter, and that will solve it.

A vacuum in the tank will aggravate this, but if there were no place where air could get in, it would hold the vacuum.

These NPT fittings are not the only place this can happen, but have been the most common place I have experienced it on a myriad of cars. Re-seal the threads on those (and be sure you are using Permatex thread sealant or equivalent, not teflon tape) and tighten the ever living daylights out of them. Then when you think you are about to split the housing open, tighten them some more! Seriously, do be careful not to break it, but I will put the filter head in a vise and use a leverage bar on the wrench, and still pull as tight as I can get it.

#3 Using a vented cap to vent the tank is one of the known shortcomings of the Greasecar system. What we always do is the following:

Get a Schraeder valve from any tire store. Get a new one, they cost like $1. If you can, take your drill bits, and actually check which bit is the correct size for the hole in a tire rim. I have done this countless times, but never remember which size bit it is.

In the tank or in the access cover, preferably the cover, drill a hole the correct size for that valve.

From the inside, stick the valve thru the hole, and with a pliers gently pull it into place until it snaps into the hole, just the way they do it at the tire shop.

Remove the stem from the valve.

Attach a piece of fuel line over it, gently clamp it down with a hose clamp, and run that fuel line somewhere to a place you can vent it under the vehicle.

Somewhere in the trunk, run that line UP AT LEAST SEVERAL INCHES, then down. It doesn't matter where, but if you don't do this, you will get fuel drippies under the car which will splash droplets all over the back of your car.

A check valve in this line will also prevent this, but would also close your safety overflow in case you somehow overflowed your tank.

Here's a link to the original thread at GreaseCar, too:

http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=9985