Willie Nelson is now Marketing BioDiesel - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

97dieseldriver · #1 01-14-2005, 05:07 PM

Saw this a bit go.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050114/ap_en_mu/willie_nelson_biodiesel_4

The stuff is called BioWillie

Got to get a hat.

vwbuge · #2 01-14-2005, 05:33 PM

10+ years ago he was big into the hemp fuel thing. He and the Gov of Kentucky at the time (his name escapes me) were pushing a Mercedes wagon that ran on hemp fuel.

phidauex · #3 01-14-2005, 05:34 PM

Yeah, he apparently works with a big huge truck stop in Texas to sell biodiesel, and has been promoting it for a while. If I recall correctly, he has a shiny silver CDI he runs on biodiesel.

I'm not really into his style of music, but he's a good guy, and I'm glad he's a part of the whole thing. His name has already gotten fuel into places it wouldn't have so quickly, and hopefully he keeps doing the same.

I'd buy a hat.

peace,
sam

Zeitgeist · #4 01-14-2005, 06:19 PM

I'm pro-Willie and I vote

Radio Nut · #5 01-14-2005, 06:54 PM

Did y'all notice the obligatory petro industry propaganda comment?

Quote:

Dan Gilligan, president of the Petroleum Marketers Association of America, expects commercial expansion for biodiesel, but says that supplies are still limited and that making the fuel available in northern states is a challenge.

"For terminals to store biodiesel, they have to store it in heated tanks to avoid gelling problems. That's a challenge for the industry to overcome," he said.

Either I've been reading the biodiesel web sites wrong, or Gilligan is full of something. I guess the charitable view would be that he is confusing biodiesel with WVO. The cynical view would be that he is a liar.

I should imagine that biodiesel is a concern for the Petroleum Marketers Association of America

aklim · #6 01-14-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Nut

Did y'all notice the obligatory petro industry propaganda comment?

Either I've been reading the biodiesel web sites wrong, or Gilligan is full of something. I guess the charitable view would be that he is confusing biodiesel with WVO. The cynical view would be that he is a liar.

I should imagine that biodiesel is a concern for the Petroleum Marketers Association of America

From Biodiesel.org

Myth: Biodiesel doesn't perform well in cold weather.
Fact: Biodiesel will gel in very cold temperatures, just as the common #2 diesel does. Although pure biodiesel has a higher cloud point than #2 diesel fuel, typical blends of 20% biodiesel are managed with the same fuel management techniques as #2 diesel. Blends of 5% biodiesel and less have virtually no impact on cold flow.

Why should it be a concern right now? Maybe way in the future, it might be. Except for the oddball here and there, Biodiesel has no real appeal when it costs more than regular diesel and is way harder to get than regular diesel which is already a challenge to get.

In 2003, they sold 25 million gallons. That is not even the proverbial drop in the bucket considering that besides trucks, diesel is not really a popular thing here like it is in Europe. If you come down to Madison and look at the gas stations beside truck stops, you would see that 20:1 is about the ratio of gas pumps to diesel. Now, as eco-crazy as Madison is, the nearest biodiesel station is in Lake Geneva, 80 miles away, why should they even be worried? It will take years and years of investment for the biodiesel to take hold. Hell, that shop doesn't even know of any incentive programs for biodiesel yet and they sell the stuff. Also, if biodiesel costs more than regular diesel, it will be a hard sell for the consumer. The question would be "Why should I pay more for a product that is supposedly the same as what I am used to?". Even on performance cars, people are trying to see if they can run higher compressions without going to higher octane fuel to save an average of $0.25. Regular diesel costs about $0.20 more than premium so for me to recoup my investment, you have to show me some real gains. Money talks. If I had bought a regular gasser, I'd oay about $0.40 less a gal that regular diesel and now you want them to pay more but don't see an immediate benifit? For many people, they are all for the environment and all that until they see the bill.

phidauex · #7 01-14-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Why should it be a concern right now? Maybe way in the future, it might be. Except for the oddball here and there, Biodiesel has no real appeal when it costs more than regular diesel and is way harder to get than regular diesel which is already a challenge to get.

The combined efforts of alternative fuel groups are definately a concern. Petroleum is getting harder and harder to find, and more and more expensive, biodiesel and other biomass fuels are getting cheaper and cheaper and easier and easier to find. You must be patient.

And around on these forums, yes, you see us 'oddballs' using it, but the people doing most of the buying right now are industrial and commercial users. Agriculture uses a large portion of the biodiesel made.

Consumer pump users are a very small part of the sales, right now.

Quote:

Money talks. If I had bought a regular gasser, I'd oay about $0.40 less a gal that regular diesel and now you want them to pay more but don't see an immediate benifit? For many people, they are all for the environment and all that until they see the bill.

Yes, you are all too correct. Welcome to the new false economy. I'd like to dig these threads up 50 years from now... The costs of not moving to alternative fuels will be greater than you can imagine. And I'm not just talking froofy emotional losses like all the poor squirrels dying, I'm talking hard monetary losses from entire industries that are rooted to the very core on the concept of a petroleum based energy input. But you may be right, we'll wait until the alternatives are cheaper and easier in every way shape and form, and by then, it will be too late. Or maybe things will turn out better.

And there is a 'today' benefit. Without biodiesel, my car nails when cold. With biodiesel, it does not. Its not magic, its a better fuel.

I see people throwing whole bottles of 7$ power service into their tanks, but biodiesel is the cheapest 'additive' you can get.

Its unfortunate that your biodiesel pump isn't aware of the changes. They might be on the last leg of distribution, and the tax incentives might affect their distributer higher up the chain, meaning its not as big of a deal for them to know about.

peace,
sam

aklim · #8 01-14-2005, 08:26 PM

Sam you are correct that the cost is down the road. However, people are generally concerned about what is now. They don't care that using this magic product will make their car last 10 years more. The question they have is what is it going to cost me today. I have known co-workers that cheered with the suggestion that their profit sharing is going up but cry when they are being cut because they are "dead weight". The future cost is something that is hard to sell. Look at the Y2K issue. They knew of it way back when. However, the cost of adding the extra 2 digits was prohibitive so they figured that someone else will fix it. Back to 1990. Countdown 10 years till the world ends. Nada. Zip. Why? As CIO, if I fix it in 1990, my department costs go up today. Tomorrow, I might be working elsewhere. 1995. Yes, it is a problem and if we need to hire contract programmers to fix the issue at the last minute it will cost more. Best fix it now by increasing the staff a little more. Sounds good but it didn't work out that way. When did they fix it? At the proverbial last minute because the CIO knew he was going to stay on till the problem was solved, at least.

The arguement is that in 10 years I might be dead, moved on, etc, etc. I want to see savings today. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Maybe they will have come up with something to fix the issue tomorrow but today I need to feed myself and my family.

phidauex · #9 01-14-2005, 08:32 PM

Yes, I agree, Aklim.. Its very hard to convince people of things that will affect their future. Even some of the most time-tested things like IRAs are hard to convince people to contribute to.

But I'm just doing my part, Aklim. Education is my business and my hobby, and I do what I can. Maybe one day I'll have even YOU burnin' the bean.

In the end I hope we can help a lot more people feed a lot more families (my extended family has quite a few farmers, none of whom are doing well at all), by whatever means necessary.

peace,
sam

aklim · #10 01-14-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phidauex

Yes, I agree, Aklim.. Its very hard to convince people of things that will affect their future. Even some of the most time-tested things like IRAs are hard to convince people to contribute to.

But I'm just doing my part, Aklim. Education is my business and my hobby, and I do what I can. Maybe one day I'll have even YOU burnin' the bean.

In the end I hope we can help a lot more people feed a lot more families (my extended family has quite a few farmers, none of whom are doing well at all), by whatever means necessary.

peace,
sam

You get it closer to me than 80 miles like local to where I am at and at a price that is say about $0.20 more than regular diesel and you bet, I'll burn the bean. Yes, there are some good things indicated so far but for me to drive 80 miles there and 80 miles back and pay over a buck more for it a gal, well, that is, like she said, hard to swallow.

phidauex · #11 01-14-2005, 09:04 PM

Well, Aklim, I'll do what I can.

80 miles is a long way to drive for fuel, and would negate a lot of the environmental benefits anyway, so I understand your reluctance.

Hopefully by this time next year there will be a closer pump, and in the next few months prices should be able to approach your range.

peace,
Sam