Biodiesel banned in Texas - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

SD Blue · #46 01-05-2007, 11:31 AM

I just love it when I'm quoted so often!

Instead of a post about technical facts and why biodiesel is under scrutiny by a air quality board, it's turned into nothing but a bunch of ranting about politics and, oh I forgot, those e-e-e-evil big oil companies.

Moderator.......do you not agree that this post should be thrown into the dump of OD?

mplafleur · #47 01-05-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorebilly

Big Oil does not like the idea of any sort of bio-fuel.....

Bio-diesel has to be such a smalllllllll percentage, big oil has to be just laughing at our efforts. We're just a pimple on a nat's ass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorebilly

Where is Teddy Roosevelt when we need him.....someone said that those who refuse to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it....SB

I think that was Geroge Santayana who said that. I remember it from from a WWI series I saw as a kid on PBS.

justinperkins · #48 01-05-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mplafleur

Bio-diesel has to be such a smalllllllll percentage, big oil has to be just laughing at our efforts. We're just a pimple on a nat's ass.

Losing money is losing money, and for every one biodiesel user, that's an average of $1,200 a year in lost revenue. There are A LOT of biodiesel users. The math is simple and I'm sure big oil would like that money.

Ass pimples are annoying no matter how small.

mplafleur · #49 01-05-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinperkins

Losing money is losing money, and for every one biodiesel user, that's an average of $1,200 a year in lost revenue. There are A LOT of biodiesel users. The math is simple and I'm sure big oil would like that money.

Ass pimples are annoying no matter how small.

$1200 revenue is $120 profit. But if it's a biod mix, say B20, then they loose $24 per person. I don't think it's worth the effort over the cost to make it happen. Where's the business case in that?

More likely it's environmentists...

justinperkins · #50 01-05-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mplafleur

$1200 revenue is $120 profit. But if it's a biod mix, say B20, then they loose $24 per person. I don't think it's worth the effort over the cost to make it happen. Where's the business case in that?

More likely it's environmentists...

Ok B20 is available EVERYWHERE. If we had some hard numbers on how many gallons of B20 was sold per year, I'm sure it'd be slightly larger than $24.

Anyway, I ain't talking about no sissy B20. I'm talking about B80 or higher, but for the most part I mean B99-B100. I'm willing to bet there are easily over 10,000 B100 supporters in the US alone. In fact, that's probably a very conservative number.

badtrukrisin · #51 01-05-2007, 05:54 PM

When they tested the emissions as stated that they did in 2002, they must have used LSD/B20 mixture. I don't see any data that has the tests done with ULSD. No, by itself, Big Oil is not afraid of Bio fuels but they ARE definately AFRAID of the movement to alternative fuels that it represents. They will try to stop all the little balls from combining to make a big ball. That is their fear.

Bud

leathermang · #52 01-05-2007, 11:23 PM

I think I saw something the other day that said that diesel cars are only 4 percent of all the cars on the road.... I wonder what percent of those are US old MB guys ?

justinperkins · #53 01-06-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

I think I saw something the other day that said that diesel cars are only 4 percent of all the cars on the road.... I wonder what percent of those are US old MB guys ?

I know you meant US only when you said 4 percent, but I thought it was worth making it abundantly clear.

If you look at just Texas though, it's way above 4 percent.

Mark DiSilvestro · #54 01-06-2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinperkins

I know you meant US only when you said 4 percent, but I thought it was worth making it abundantly clear.

If you look at just Texas though, it's way above 4 percent.

This got me wondering, if one only counted CARS, not trucks, would it still be over 4% in Texas ?
I believe it's something around or over 50% in most of Europe.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Bama1 · #55 01-06-2007, 12:19 PM

is the reason the East Texas Counties are already under restrictions by the EPA. Auto Emissions are a relatively small contributing factor to the air quality problem now that the industrial refineries all over EAST Texas have been allowed to discharge tons of pollutants for decades from all their old antiquated chemical and gasoline refineries...you see it is reportedly way too expensive to update their plants and the poor companies simply cannot afford to invest more dollars in that. Go figure

Seriously, the catch 22 is they can continue to operate older, inefficient process facilities by way of a sort of grandfathered system but new construction must be compliant with the current standards...so really except for the health of their employees, the general public and the sake of the environment, why spend the money to do something that is not required?

Problem is the current terrible air quality (and it is worse now in Houston and surrounding East TX counties than anywhere else in the USA Ever -remember the old LA smog? ) is increasing public pressure on the govt to restrict anything that may remotely add to the problem-or closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

Unfortunately, the new technologies such as biodiesel refining and it's use are wrapped up in the compliance restrictions and the variables of poorly conducted, unscientific tests that are accepted without validation...oops sorry!

More:
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/everydaylife/archives/HP_ILP_Feature_03.html
http://texas.sierraclub.org/press/newsreleases/smog2.html
http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/comm_exec/forms_pubs/pubs/pd/020/05-02/houston.html

justinperkins · #56 01-06-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

This got me wondering, if one only counted CARS, not trucks, would it still be over 4% in Texas ?
I believe it's something around or over 50% in most of Europe.

Happy Motoring, Mark

I don't know, but I was counting trucks too since most people use them as their daily drivers.

I do see a lot of TDIs and Mercedes diesels here. Way more than I saw in CA, that's for sure.

retx · #57 01-06-2007, 12:24 PM

Back in NC, i think i see way more vw diesels and mb diesels than i do here. there are more trucks here though. and back there, you can get diesel at almost every service station, here it seems like its a hit or miss deal.
in those percentages, dont forget about all of the tractor trailers, public buses, and school buses.

WDBCB20 · #58 01-06-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H-townbenzoboy

ALL fuels deteriorate rubber fuel lines, even VO. Rubber fuel lines should be the least of your worries if you get a bad batch of WVO.

Anyway, it makes more sense to modify the fuel to run in your car, not modify the car to run your fuel. Not saying this is a description of you, but it seems like more W123s are being bought and hacked up with these kits without regard, simply for the purpose of using cheap or free fuel by folks who couldn't care less about who made the car, instead of being bought because the person is a true MB enthusiast who appreciates the qualities of a well built, properly maintained vehicle. But who am I to sound like I'm the unquestioned authority on these matters? It's your car and your hard earned money, you do what you want with it.

But I guess there is a upside, considering some MB diesels are being saved from the scrapyard as a result, and this experience may turn someone looking for cheap fuel into a MB enthusiast who's just gotta buy more and more of them and save them from a worse fate (remember, these cars are addictive

).

http://www.biodiesel.org/markets/gen/
"Pure biodiesel is not compatible with natural rubber, sometimes found in pre-1994 vehicles. Because it is a solvent, it can degrade natural rubber hoses and gaskets." That means you and i until you get your cdi

. Though we all ought to have upgraded our leaky 20+ year old fuel lines with modern i.e. viton biodiesel resistant lines by now so yes then it would not be any worry. Bad fuel, however, is bad fuel. Garbage in garbage out: transesterification is not a magic wand that turns contaminated vegetable oil into pristine fuel:

http://biodiesel.tribe.net/thread/b1a4ff5f-ac7e-45cd-8a3a-f1fe9fc5422f
Re: VW Jetta Fuel Line/Warranty Issues - Anyone got any experience?
Fri, September 29, 2006 - 1:58 AM

"The bottom line is that here in CA, we get crappy Biodiesel made from waste vegetable oil, that has been poorly transesterfied, washed and dried. Not Virgin soy, which is way too expensive to bring in by rail from the midwest.
And it wrecks fuel pumps, seals, has methanol in it, starts hard, and in general does what every single fuel injection pump manufacturer has commented about since that document was signed in 2000 by every single major FIE manufacterers President."

Hopefully,the well observed theoretical upside you describe in your last paragraph will offset the "hackers" you so rightfully despise. It should be noted that such kits can be installed with minimal and easily reversible "hacking" if you are (rightfully) concerned about keeping your car original.

My original post was not meant to indict the quality of biodiesel as a fuel. The quality of which, strictly manufactured to industry specifications (ASTM D6751) is well established. Nor do i want to deprive anyone of the convenience of just pulling up to the pump and fillin' her up. I just want to point out the toxicity of its production (methanol mixed with lye -caustic soda) and the additional expense. Any additional ingredient and/or process drives up price. If the environmental argument is not compelling to you please compare long term cost of 100% bioD to (of course collected,dewatered, filtered and kit purchase/installation cost amortized) WVO.

Shorebilly · #59 01-08-2007, 07:03 AM

From my point of view.......Bio-Diesel can be used in any vehicle without any conversion, or modifications.......whereas WVO requires the conversion/modification (hacking as some have said here).......

If a person is only concerned with 1 vehicle......a conversion to burn WVO is possibly economically feasible......however, I intend to run Bio-Diesel in all of my Diesel vehicles......and to convert 3 or more vehicles to WVO is not economically feasable......

So I am pursuing my own personal bio-diesel refinery......and I don't intend for any of the process chemicals to escape into the ecological system.....the only by-product is glycerin.....and I think I should be able to get rid of that easily......the methanol is recyclable within the process......

SB