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  #16  
Old 04-18-2007, 06:46 PM
biobenz240d's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Sean Watts View Post
The question is "What is the lowest percent MeOH acceptable?"
Washing (properly, then drying) can produce ASTM standard fuel but it does not uncontaminate bad MeOH or reverse saponification.
Just got off the phone with my friend the IP rebuilder and his answer to this question is that the residual MEOH is much less of a problem than is water in the fuel. Proper drying will produce a higher quality fuel , but will still have residual water. If the fuel is the least bit cloudy at about 65F then water is still present. The sulphur in diesel fuel plus water erodes the pump hard parts much faster than MeOH and water the only plus for ulsd. When I finish a batch of bio, I put about 500ml of bio in a pop bottle with 500ml of water and shake vigorously. The bio and water separate in about 10 min. and the water in the bottle will turn a slight milky color which indicates the presence of soap. Taking that 500ml of bio and changing the water , again shaking, the water will be almost clear.( I use the 5.5% glycerin prewash method) I can't give real world data as to the MEOH and soap as to how much is present , but I am meticulose when I make my bio and will only know for sure when the pump is rebuilt. Which I don't think it will be for a while.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2007, 09:06 PM
C Sean Watts's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biobenz240d View Post
Just got off the phone with my friend the IP rebuilder and his answer to this question is that the residual MEOH is much less of a problem than is water in the fuel. Proper drying will produce a higher quality fuel , but will still have residual water. If the fuel is the least bit cloudy at about 65F then water is still present. The sulphur in diesel fuel plus water erodes the pump hard parts much faster than MeOH and water the only plus for ulsd. When I finish a batch of bio, I put about 500ml of bio in a pop bottle with 500ml of water and shake vigorously. The bio and water separate in about 10 min. and the water in the bottle will turn a slight milky color which indicates the presence of soap. Taking that 500ml of bio and changing the water , again shaking, the water will be almost clear.( I use the 5.5% glycerin prewash method) I can't give real world data as to the MEOH and soap as to how much is present , but I am meticulose when I make my bio and will only know for sure when the pump is rebuilt. Which I don't think it will be for a while.
The question remains...
Can you use 95% MeOH BEFORE you make fuel...the answer is NO.
Your friend, I'm sure, knows IPs well and your wash procedure is good for a one step process. However, NO wash process will fix bad ingredients ***GARBAGE IN - GARBAGE OUT.***

Suggested reading from your favorite source...any online chemical reference.
Fischer esterification & transestrification both in a basic and acidic environment.

OH, FORGOT...Please let us know what all is found with the IP rebuild.
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Last edited by C Sean Watts; 04-19-2007 at 03:47 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2007, 01:02 PM
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My questions: Why unwashed on the 7.3 International, and not on the MB? Have you witnessed any issues with unwashed on the MB?
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Can't give a good answer here. I started making bio about a year ago and was driving (living in) my old E350 van. Made bio over a campfire in the mountains of NC. Washing was out of the question. When I returned home and set up a bit more sophisitcaed processor I did two things - started washing the fuel and bought a 300D. I have read lots of pros and cons about washing so thought I'd exeriment a little. I value the Mercedes more than the old van, so it gets the washed fuel. At this time, both run great. Absolutely no problems. At first washing was a royal pain but the system I use now is pretty straightforward and doesn't require much time. I mist a batch for about 4 hrs. Heat it to speed up the separtaion. Drain the water (and middle layer - to be allowed to slowly settle out). Finally apply gentle heat and do some serious bubbling with an air compressor. Whole process takes maybe 24 hrs. About 30 minutes actually working on it and the rest just checking and waiting.
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2007, 01:04 PM
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Gotta get more comuter literate. Copied and pasted your question and it didn't show up too well. Guess I should have used the 'quote' box. Is that how you do it?
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John Schroader
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"You cannot permanently help a man by doing for him what he could and should do for himself" Abraham Lincoln
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  #20  
Old 04-19-2007, 03:44 PM
C Sean Watts's Avatar
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If this is what you mean???

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schroader View Post
Gotta get more comuter literate. Copied and pasted your question and it didn't show up too well. Guess I should have used the 'quote' box. Is that how you do it?


Yes, click the "quote" box.

As for washing: You describe a good process as long as it produces clear and clean fuel. It is better in the long run. NOT doing so leaves some methoxide (alcohol and lye) glycerine, water and some very small amounts of soap-even if you titrate accurately! Remember MeOH is what's called hygroscopic meaning it actually pulls water vapor out of the air. That little bit of moisture 'holds back' the reaction from total completion. You end up with less fuel and more of the above. The unwanted 'stuff' contributes to gelling and really isn't good for IPs or engine parts. You could use unwashed but you just might end up walking sometime.

ALL isn't lost. If you are up to it, there is a two step reaction...
After the basic (with NaOH) the 'waste' can be reprocessed using an acid environment, H2SO4. This adds cost and time BUT there's no titration. NB, the two step process will yield more fuel but 'tis NOT for the chemistry illiterate or those without proper ventilation.
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2007, 05:05 PM
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My first try with unwashed bio in my Benz, although unfair, was the last. I still had a lot of methanol in the fuel, and the idle was TERRIBLE. I'm sure if I had the patience, I would settle and evaporate, but I don't. I brew fuel when I need it, and so I wash it in order to burn it sooner.
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