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  #16  
Old 05-29-2007, 09:35 AM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
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Location: Vero Beach, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
There are two ways to get the WVO to the same viscosity as diesel fuel.
1-You can heat the oil to 160deg
2-You can blend
Both work equally as good.
I choose the latter, as my signature states.

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  #17  
Old 05-29-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Benz View Post
If you can "cut it" with kerosene, mix it with diesel or anything else that might work to thin it out, shouldn't that be OK as well?
So you are going to cut a highly viscous fluid with a fluid that is at the proper viscoscity. Assuming the viscosity will be an average of the two liquids you will need to run nearly 100% kero to get the viscosity of kero...

By the way, it is not just a viscosity issue. Cold WVO does not atomize well and ends up running down the cylinder walls into your oil sump.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against VO as a fuel. I'm running 100% homemade biodiesel right now. When I go on long road trips I start up with my fuel tank as empty as I can (plan ahead) and get the engine nice and hot. Once it is hot I fill the rest of the tank with dry, filtered vegetable oil. When I get to where I am going I dilute the couple of gallons left in the tank with biodiesel or pump diesel. I have a 26 plate flat plate heat exchanger in the engine bay to heat my fuel. I am all for biodiesel and VO fuel!

I'll get to two tanks once my welder finishes my spare-tire-well tank. Until then it is biodiesel around town and WVO on long road trips.

-Jim
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:17 AM
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Heres about the best thread Ive seen on blending ,the guy has been in it for around 19 years now and runs some of his farm equipment on his special blend ,the key he says is the prep for the wvo ,he will not comprimise for time saved on his proven method of filtering and setteling ,sounds like his got it down to a science. His site name is JEFF47 AND THE THREAD IS ON FRYBRID .COM ,A 2 tank kit company .http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3282
He gives you his formula ,tested filtering techniques and general knowledge of his blending methods ,a good read.
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  #19  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:40 AM
Gene
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,102
Dale,

Just some thoughts, as I'm a few steps behind you...all this my recent research , summed, and imho

Running straight WVO in a high milage car is a roll of the dice. The motor has to be tight, coke free to do it best. Tired mills might get alot more tired with WVO ( as opposed to the purity of SVO.) Glow plug system must be 100%. Fuel preheaters in place ( the 95 has a HEATED winshield washer tank - INSTA preheater! ), and a well adjusted engine to eat it right.

I'm waiting for biobenz240d to invite me over when his new "still" is up and running so I can see what the process entails, and how "fussy" we can get with the filtrations.

I'll likely be using WVO that's been processed into bio, but, I'm still open to straight WVO if I can get my head around the "cleansing chemistry". Not about to ruin a perfectly good 222K 606 motor. One of those, " if it aint broke, dont fix it" types.

Definitely use a second tank for WVO. You'll always want some petro/bio on tap, and you need to warm WVO up all the way down the line.

I can see myself using a simple 1-2 gal underhood container which will do for commuting days!

Last edited by WINGAS; 05-29-2007 at 11:50 AM.
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  #20  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:51 AM
NC Benz's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
There are two ways to get the WVO to the same viscosity as diesel fuel.
1-You can heat the oil to 160deg
2-You can blend
Both work equally as good.

The single most important thing in my opinion is to get a good source/s. I get my oil from a Thai restaurant and a Sushi restaurant and they both filter without much mess. DO NOT go anyplace where they fry meats.

I have been blending and running WVO for over a year now on a one tank system. The only problems I have ever had were fungus. Since I started using biocide in every batch that problem has gone away.

DO NOT blend with diesel fuel. You will never get it to the viscosity you need. Use RUG or Kerosene.

Gotta go, I'm on my way to get 15 gallons of free fuel.

Danny

I am looking for a good supply of oil as we speak.

I think that kerosene would be better (and cheaper). What percentages do you use? 90% WVO to 10% kerosene?

Also can you then take that mixture and mix it with regular diesel?

THANKS!!
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  #21  
Old 05-29-2007, 12:10 PM
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Currently I'm blending 1.25 gallons of Kero to 4 gallons WVO. In the winter I use more kero 1.75 gallons or 2 gallons to 4 gallons WVO. While my kero supply lasts. Right now I'm getting it free. When the supply is gone it will be back to RUG.

It doesn't really get cold here if I lived in Ohio I would probably heat the WVO in the winter. I'm not so sure I'd want to put WVO into an engine that's at 10 degrees. I would at least use injector line heaters.

You can go back to regular diesel at any time.

Danny
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  #22  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:24 PM
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A few things to mention.
Straight WVO or VO needs to be heated to 160F+ to be at the proper viscosity. If not, it will coke and not atomize correctly when injected.
I personally do not like blending with RUG or Kerosene as I feel that you have the same problem even if it's somewhat thinner. (Some people swear by blending.)
IF you are going to run WVO or VO, I think injector line heaters are a must. However, one thing not mentioned on the type that I have is you should not run them with over 80% #2. ( a blend of #2 and WVO). You should also have a heated fuel filter to keep the WVO flowing. Granted, this is only if your climate is warm.
Do not run injector line heaters using a RUG blend. They get hot enough to vaporize the RUG, which I feel is a potentially dangerous situation. (As a side note, I put the injector line heaters on thinking I might run a blend of Bio-D and WVO during the summer. And yes, I will have a heated fuel filter. Currently, I have the fuse pulled on the injector line heaters pending installation of an on/off switch, also coupled with the ignition circuit)
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Last edited by probear; 05-29-2007 at 02:24 PM. Reason: keyboard malfunction :D
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  #23  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:42 PM
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carefull, blending bioD with wvo/svo is dangerous. it can cause the vo to deester or whatever, and leave heavy deposits of wax/celulose in the tank and plug up your filters!
John
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  #24  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probear View Post
A few things to mention.
Straight WVO or VO needs to be heated to 160F+ to be at the proper viscosity. If not, it will coke and not atomize correctly when injected.
I personally do not like blending with RUG or Kerosene as I feel that you have the same problem even if it's somewhat thinner. (Some people swear by blending.)
IF you are going to run WVO or VO, I think injector line heaters are a must. However, one thing not mentioned on the type that I have is you should not run them with over 80% #2. ( a blend of #2 and WVO). You should also have a heated fuel filter to keep the WVO flowing. Granted, this is only if your climate is warm.
Do not run injector line heaters using a RUG blend. They get hot enough to vaporize the RUG, which I feel is a potentially dangerous situation. (As a side note, I put the injector line heaters on thinking I might run a blend of Bio-D and WVO during the summer. And yes, I will have a heated fuel filter. Currently, I have the fuse pulled on the injector line heaters pending installation of an on/off switch, also coupled with the ignition circuit)

Not trying to be a smarty pants, but you state that injector line heaters are a must but yet you have yours unplugged.

Also, in regards to the 80%.... is that 80% D2 and 20% WVO? Sorry I am confused (yes yes I am a new guy)

Is there information as to the atomization temps/pressures of diesel versus WVO?

This is my first diesel. What is the composition difference between D1 and D2?
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  #25  
Old 05-29-2007, 03:16 PM
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There are numerous misconceptions floating around. As well as old wives tales and personal feelings stated as fact.
It takes a while to sort out the BS and get good reliable info. Best thing is to research and use common sense.
The one thing about doing research though is beware of what someone tells you who is trying to sell you something.

Danny
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  #26  
Old 05-29-2007, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
There are numerous misconceptions floating around. As well as old wives tales and personal feelings stated as fact.
It takes a while to sort out the BS and get good reliable info. Best thing is to research and use common sense.
The one thing about doing research though is beware of what someone tells you who is trying to sell you something.

Danny

Yes I know horse beaten to death..... buuuut,

What are YOU using to filter/dewater/make oil nice for your car? What are you mixing in?

How do I get free Kero like you????
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  #27  
Old 05-30-2007, 08:50 AM
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I filter twice. I filter through a pillow case into a 15 gallon drum then through a 5 micron filter into cubes.
I don't worry about water. As far as I'm concerned that's one of those "Old wives tales". I did some experiments with oil and water. I could not get the oil to mix with the water, the water always sunk right to the bottom. The only way I could get water to mix with the oil was to agitate it in, meaning shake it very hard. It made the WVO very cloudy. Also it would not come out of suspension even after sitting for a month. If your oil has water in it you'll know there is NO "Hidden" water in WVO.
Now you can get water with the oil depending on how you collect it. If your dumpster diving you never collect from the bottom or near the bottom of a container.

A friend of mines parents have a house that ran the appliances off Kerosene. They converted to electric and the kero tank with roughly 100 gallons has to go bye bye.
I think there's still about 50 gallons left. it will be a sad day when it's all gone.

Danny
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  #28  
Old 05-30-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Benz View Post
Not trying to be a smarty pants, but you state that injector line heaters are a must but yet you have yours unplugged.

Also, in regards to the 80%.... is that 80% D2 and 20% WVO? Sorry I am confused (yes yes I am a new guy)

Is there information as to the atomization temps/pressures of diesel versus WVO?

This is my first diesel. What is the composition difference between D1 and D2?
I just started making my Bio-D for the season, and have yet to install the heated fuel filter. Presently, I'm running straight #2 (or at least up until last night)

IF you have injector line heaters, they should be off if you are running more than 80% #2, per the heater manufacturer. (80% #2 & 20% WVO/VO)

And somewhere in the forums, is a chart of the viscosity verses temperature.
I'll see if I can find it.
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  #29  
Old 05-30-2007, 04:00 PM
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Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannym View Post
I don't worry about water. As far as I'm concerned that's one of those "Old wives tales". I did some experiments with oil and water. I could not get the oil to mix with the water, the water always sunk right to the bottom. The only way I could get water to mix with the oil was to agitate it in, meaning shake it very hard. It made the WVO very cloudy. Also it would not come out of suspension even after sitting for a month. If your oil has water in it you'll know there is NO "Hidden" water in WVO.

Danny
Hi Danny,

Not having to worry about the water is the "Old wives tale".

It has been proven time and again that oil can hold small amounts of water and it has been proven that even amounts too small to see will damage the IP.

Agitating water and oil is no where near the mechanism where water gets into the oil in a fryer.

It's the hidden water that does the most damage over time. In the many years that I have been running grease, a number of people have told me that oil and water don't mix and they don't worry about it. Every one of them (except a couple who were inadvertantly settling the water out) stopped using grease within two years because of "engine problems".

By the way, even though diesel oil holds less water than veggie oil, there is an ASTM limit for water in the diesel spec.
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'80 Audi 4000D
'83 ISUZU Pup
'70 SAAB 99 with Kubota diesel
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota diesel
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Last edited by WD8CDH; 06-01-2007 at 07:37 AM.
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  #30  
Old 05-30-2007, 06:35 PM
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I now have somewhat over 35K of seamless, trouble free driving on my 2 tank system. I haven't used the wvo when temps drop below 10f, not worth the chance that an unexpected shutdown will leave the internals of the fuel system semi solid, or that the wvo might cool down in the 6" of hose between the switch-over valve and the lift pump (wind chill driving 65mph at -30f is hard to imagine unless you have experienced it) Next step is manufacture of bio for the cold months. Bio can't be used here in the north from Dec to March because of its gelling properties; BUT it should work just fine in the heated side of my fuel system.

If you are serious about wvo don't scrimp on the system or the filtering setup, it will sour you on the whole process.

Jim

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