wvo settling and blending - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JohnPhazer · #1 07-30-2007, 09:00 AM

I got WVO from a Chinese restaurant added kerosene and let it settle for a few days. I the bottom of the tank there is now a large layer of cloudy junk, about the volume of kero that I added and on the top is a layer of very nice looking oil. What could that layer be and is it useful at all for fuel. Can it be treated with anything?
John

dieseldan44 · #2 07-30-2007, 09:14 AM

There a few folks who are WVO users here, but most are dino or retail bio users. You may be better off going to a WVO only forum like greasecar.com for a larger volume of answers / archived answers.

I have not heard of adding kero to a WVO batch, but I am not experienced in this area. From seeing others WVO operations (Im a WVO hopeful), they just settle and heat, then draw off the drop. And then repeat the settle and heat, draw off the top again and go.

777funk · #3 07-30-2007, 09:31 AM

You have to filter it through a bag filter rated around 5 microns or less. But I'd say look for a good centrifuge. It seems like you could get the work done a little more efficiently that way (less time involved of messing with the oil and you get more product and less waste). Look on a good WVO forum or search this forum for Centrifuge and WVO.

Thanks,
Nick

Mojool · #4 07-30-2007, 10:40 AM

well kerosene and/or rug (regular unleaded gasoline) are common things to cut the wvo with to make it perform better at colder temps. you need to filter that oil before letting it settle imho. the main purpose of settling is to make the 'free water' drop out. keep in mind that the atomized/combined water is not going to drop out so one must 'dewater' the wvo. a goldenrod or racor filter that takes out water will only remove the free water. after a bit heat and then settling 2 weeks (the free water should have dropped mostly out by then) take some oil off the top of the cubie/barrel and put about 1 tablespoon into an already hot frying pan. make sure you have plenty of light as you will need to count/approximate how many bubbles are coming up in that oil as it quickly gets hot (the bubbles are combined water trying to escape).

for more information on this and other topics regarding wvo/biodiesel. visit http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums

i hope i don't piss any mods off with the link. it's pretty much totally unrelated to this forum is the only reason i feel i can post it.

come back and post your results. most of the time wvo that hasn't seen any meat is better than wvo that has. and some fine restaurants will filter down their WVO so you won't get all that crap (you still need to filter down to 5 microns though).

Biodiesel300TD · #5 07-30-2007, 11:10 AM

I wouldn't put any of it in your car unless you dewatered and filtered the veggie oil first. What may end up happening is you'll clog filters like crazy, and you may introduce water into your fuel system.

Chinese resturants usually use partially hydrogenated veggie oils. DO NOT uses these oils. Partially hydronenated oils get solid at very warm temps, 70+ degrees. When oil is thick or solid at at such a warm temp you are going to have that stuff solid in your tank before you know it. Especially if you are not heating it. Blending will help but it's still really bad fuel to put in your tank.

If you didn't filter or settle your oil before you blended with kerosene the sludge on the bottom could be all the particulates and water that were in the veggie oil. If you did filter or settle the VO then it could be wax. People have experienced wax settling out when the blend diesel and VO.

Mojool · #6 07-30-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD

I wouldn't put any of it in your car unless you dewatered and filtered the veggie oil first. What may end up happening is you'll clog filters like crazy, and you may introduce water into your fuel system.

Chinese resturants usually use partially hydrogenated veggie oils. DO NOT uses these oils. Partially hydronenated oils get solid at very warm temps, 70+ degrees. When oil is thick or solid at at such a warm temp you are going to have that stuff solid in your tank before you know it. Especially if you are not heating it. Blending will help but it's still really bad fuel to put in your tank.

If you didn't filter or settle your oil before you blended with kerosene the sludge on the bottom could be all the particulates and water that were in the veggie oil. If you did filter or settle the VO then it could be wax. People have experienced wax settling out when the blend diesel and VO.

yes, i have read about dino and wvo blending being the causation of wax/paraffin. Biodiesel300TD, how do you dewater? Iron pipe/water heater element? Please post your system. Thanks

firemediceric · #7 07-31-2007, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojool

well kerosene and/or rug (regular unleaded gasoline) are common things to cut the wvo with to make it perform better at colder temps. you need to filter that oil before letting it settle imho. the main purpose of settling is to make the 'free water' drop out. keep in mind that the atomized/combined water is not going to drop out so one must 'dewater' the wvo. a goldenrod or racor filter that takes out water will only remove the free water. after a bit heat and then settling 2 weeks (the free water should have dropped mostly out by then) take some oil off the top of the cubie/barrel and put about 1 tablespoon into an already hot frying pan. make sure you have plenty of light as you will need to count/approximate how many bubbles are coming up in that oil as it quickly gets hot (the bubbles are free water trying to escape).

for more information on this and other topics regarding wvo/biodiesel. visit http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums

i hope i don't piss any mods off with the link. it's pretty much totally unrelated to this forum is the only reason i feel i can post it.

come back and post your results. most of the time wvo that hasn't seen any meat is better than wvo that has. and some fine restaurants will filter down their WVO so you won't get all that crap (you still need to filter down to 5 microns though).

I came in late on this, but pretty much agree with what is quoted above. I continue to run a blend in my MB and Powerstroke for well over a year now without issue, although MPG is a little lower than on #2 diesel as is to be expected.

The key is to filter well. For me, this includes a mist wash, letting the oil settle, draining off the water, heat, more time to settle and filtering to 1 micron nominal before mixing in any of the cutting agents.

Targa-NF · #8 07-31-2007, 12:43 PM

I have been running my 83 300 SD on WVO for over 6 Years. First I find the best oil I can. NY Frys and A&W is the best so far. They cook very little to no animal fat. First I filter through 5 Micron bag. " Got on Ebay - 5 for 35$" Second I let it settle for 2-3 Days. Then put right in car.
I live in cold climate, summer is only 3 months long and never gets above 80 F. I only add Supreme Gas to my oil when it drops under 45-50F. Never more then 25% at the coldest time in the winter when its -10 to 0 F. I have found if I use regular gas I get a wax like crap in my filters. This is water in the gas. If you took a pint of Regular gas and put it in you freezer for a few days you will find Ice in the gas. But you will find very little if you do it with Supreme gas.
Now I have never had any problem doing it this way for over 6 years. When my main filter starts to clog I am low on power. So I have lots of warning before the car stops all together. The only thing I found to be a pain by doing it this way is, that when you start doing it for the first time all the crap in the bottom of your tank will make it way to you filters. Oil holds on to it better then diesel. I would flush the tank first then fill with oil. Second is that you have to flush you tank every year to get the new crap the oil leaves behind. Third Is that you have to leave your foot on the gas for the first 3-4 min to keep her running when she is cold.
But it is all worth it. Very little to have to do to drive around for almost free. Wish all my cars were half as good to me as my MB Diesels.

NC Benz · #9 07-31-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targa-NF

I have been running my 83 300 SD on WVO for over 6 Years. First I find the best oil I can. NY Frys and A&W is the best so far. They cook very little to no animal fat. First I filter through 5 Micron bag. " Got on Ebay - 5 for 35$" Second I let it settle for 2-3 Days. Then put right in car.
I live in cold climate, summer is only 3 months long and never gets above 80 F. I only add Supreme Gas to my oil when it drops under 45-50F. Never more then 25% at the coldest time in the winter when its -10 to 0 F. I have found if I use regular gas I get a wax like crap in my filters. This is water in the gas. If you took a pint of Regular gas and put it in you freezer for a few days you will find Ice in the gas. But you will find very little if you do it with Supreme gas.
Now I have never had any problem doing it this way for over 6 years. When my main filter starts to clog I am low on power. So I have lots of warning before the car stops all together. The only thing I found to be a pain by doing it this way is, that when you start doing it for the first time all the crap in the bottom of your tank will make it way to you filters. Oil holds on to it better then diesel. I would flush the tank first then fill with oil. Second is that you have to flush you tank every year to get the new crap the oil leaves behind. Third Is that you have to leave your foot on the gas for the first 3-4 min to keep her running when she is cold.
But it is all worth it. Very little to have to do to drive around for almost free. Wish all my cars were half as good to me as my MB Diesels.

By SUPREME GAS do you mean a gas with higher octane?

Do you do anything to dewater your fuel?

WD8CDH · #10 07-31-2007, 03:05 PM

For prolonging the life of you engine, de-watering is more important than filtering. Poor filtering will just plug your fuel filter but water will ruin your IP.

dannym · #11 07-31-2007, 03:13 PM

I agree that the "cloudy junk" is crap settling out. Personally I would not use that oil.
I get oil from a Thai restaurant and a Sushi restaurant. Both have good relatively clean oil. I onced tried oil from a Mexican restaurant, I would never do that again.
I have been running WVO for 1 1/2 years now. I filter into a settling drum where it sits for a week. I put 1 gallon of kerosene or rug into a cube then I filter again through a 5 micron filter into the cubes.
I add biocide and powerservice and I'm good to go.

A good oil source should be #1 on your list.

Danny

Sbean · #12 07-31-2007, 03:21 PM

In my experience (starting in 2003) here in central California, the oriental restaurants tend to have the best oil, usually non-hydrogenated.
Gasoline, regular or premium, should not have any water in it. What would be the reason for regular to have it, and premium not have it?
My owners manual (1980 300 TD) mentions adding up to 30% Regular Unleaded to diesel #2 in very cold weather to reduce viscosity and gelling. It specifically says to use regular, not premium. (High octane is kind of like the opposite of high cetane re: ignition in a diesel engine.) Steve

dwoloz · #13 07-31-2007, 03:37 PM

You need to add heat to your processing system. Heat will aid in settling and also free up emulsified water and let that settle out as well. I use an 80' heat wire sold for deicing roofs and gutters wrapped around a 55 gallon steel drum. I then insulated the drum with heating duct insulation. Without the insulation temps got to 110F. With insulation they get to 150F. I have a drain at the bottom of the barrel that I can drain the water and sludge from

I also have a setup with a Thai restaurant where I gave them a steel drum with a bulkhead fitting and tap attached 10 inches above the bottom of the barrel. I check on the oil every couple of weeks and drain whatever I can into cubies. Because the tap is 10 inches off the bottom and I let the oil sit, the settling process starts way before I even touch the oil. The oil that I get from the tap is already relatively clean because of the settling and I just have to heat/dewater it and do some final polishing through a 2 micron filter

Mojool · #14 07-31-2007, 09:43 PM

so you only have to go to 150F to get the water to start de-emulsifying?
i thought one would have to go much higher than that to make the oil dry...
but i'm a nub so, perhaps you are right.

Sbean · #15 08-01-2007, 02:47 AM

The 150 degree heat is not to "boil" the water, but to cause it to settle out. This is better than boiling it off, because boiling only removes the water, not stuff dissolved in the water. There's lots of information and discussion about this subject on forums such as biodiesel.infopop. Steve