Honda has just made WVO and Biodiesel obsolete... - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dynamitejacket · #31 12-02-2007, 05:24 PM

since this thread has nothing to do with mb diesels...

why not, instead of trying to support the ridiculous idea that everyone should have one or more cars, and drive 50 miles a day, using one of several fuel sources that ALL involve burning stuff at some point in production, we/they devise a plan to build intelligent cities with decent public transportation and get people off their fat asses- perhaps onto a bike- for longer than it takes to shamble out to the garage?

im praying for $8 per gallon- or whatever it takes to wake people up

TheDon · #32 12-02-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt L

Do you know how people bought gasoline in the early motor car days? Don't assume that it can't be done.

That is only because the gasoline motor car people crushed the electrics... I say bring back the first autos.. the electrics!

aklim · #33 12-02-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamitejacket

since this thread has nothing to do with mb diesels...

why not, instead of trying to support the ridiculous idea that everyone should have one or more cars, and drive 50 miles a day, using one of several fuel sources that ALL involve burning stuff at some point in production, we/they devise a plan to build intelligent cities with decent public transportation and get people off their fat asses- perhaps onto a bike- for longer than it takes to shamble out to the garage?

im praying for $8 per gallon- or whatever it takes to wake people up

And what are you, good sir, doing with 3 cars in your sig?

JWJ · #34 12-02-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

NG pollutes a lot less than coal, or gasoline cars.

But what about peak NG...

We could import NG into the US but there are only a few ports that currently handle it.

We better think up better solutions than using NG and electrocuting water to obtain H.

I'm interested in seeing who gets blamed for the H revolution failing.

lamont · #35 12-02-2007, 06:52 PM

Honda is building the ultimate WVO/SVO automobile. http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html

pj67coll · #36 12-02-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Sean Watts

Already happened in FL and CA.

So every gas station in Florida and California already has a Hydrogen pump does it?

- Peter.

dynamitejacket · #37 12-02-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And what are you, good sir, doing with 3 cars in your sig?

you busted me- i forgot my two bicycles

and thats two cars in my sig, plus the tdi is for sale.

i am by no means living up to my own ideals as far as my argument goes. I, like most others in this country, do not have the luxury of idealism. i have cars because i need to drive to get to work, blah blah, cant afford to live close by, blah,blah weve all heard the song before. i just think pursuing "alternative" fuels that are more expensive than the petroleum you need to burn to produce the fuel is silly. lets solve the real problem, and thats our dependence on single user transit in a world that increasingly unable to support it.

aklim · #38 12-02-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamitejacket

i am by no means living up to my own ideals as far as my argument goes. I, like most others in this country, do not have the luxury of idealism.

If you, the proposer of the idea cannot live up to your own ideals, why should the rest of us? What makes you think we have the luxury of idealism?

lietuviai · #39 12-02-2007, 07:53 PM

I have no interest in living a crowded disgusting city so I could be near where I work. I looked particularly for a place which was far enough away yet close enough to commute to.
I don't have idiot neighbors to complain about me working on a diesel car. If it gets too expensive to commute then I'll look to running a diesel on SVO again.

#40 12-02-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamitejacket

fuel sources that ALL involve burning stuff at some point in production

Hydrogen powered cars could be powered with zero carbon foot print. However, first we will either need advances in bio-engineering algae to produce the hydrogen for us or more solar/wind/nuclear/hydro power.

dynamitejacket · #41 12-02-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If you, the proposer of the idea cannot live up to your own ideals, why should the rest of us? What makes you think we have the luxury of idealism?

i am sure you dont have the luxury of your idealism aklim.
like leituviai, i couldnt bear to live in the city where i work, and so i commute. but there is not a single day i dont drive over the mountain road i take to work and think: "If i could get the money for it somehow, id put in a light rail and get 25000 cars a day off this road"-

at the root of it, i think its stupid to talk about expensive alternatives to petroleum fuel when it really doesnt matter what you car runs on. you are still going to be stuck in the same traffic.

JimSmith · #42 12-02-2007, 09:07 PM

Hydrogen as a fuel for the masses poses a number of challenges, in terms of storage and distribution, and then how the hydrogen is actually converted to torque and rpm. Each of the candidate conversion methods has unique manufacturing and operating challenges. One of the most daunting challenges for fuel cells is how to make the energy equations come out favorable considering the by product of those conversion devices is water, and it freezes at 0 degrees C. Another is the fact that the rate of change in anything tied to the chip industry makes the equipment obsolete when it leaves the factory. A problem for spare parts inventories if you expect to keep your car for twenty or more years like we do our Diesels.

But, new fuel sources are coming. And, when you consider the distribution costs of gasoline and Diesel fuel, from the refinery to the distribution pipelines, distribution centers, tanker trucks, and the cost of driving to the stations to get fuel, something that works using electricity being generated at a thermal efficiency of nearly twice that of the IC engine, and delivers system efficiencies at the end user level in the low 90's will ultimately arrive. It is also much more practical to fully scrub a large gas turbine generator's emissions, say making 200 to 500 MW, than it is to effectively clean up a thousand smaller, less efficient machines.

So, Diesels hold a specific attraction for many of us, and in no small part due to their longevity and overall economic cost of ownership. These future machines have the potential to make our Diesels look crude, wasteful and costly to operate. When that happens I don't think the change will be so difficult to accept. Jim

aklim · #43 12-02-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamitejacket

i am sure you dont have the luxury of your idealism aklim.

like leituviai, i couldnt bear to live in the city where i work, and so i commute. but there is not a single day i dont drive over the mountain road i take to work and think: "If i could get the money for it somehow, id put in a light rail and get 25000 cars a day off this road"-

Hence I have a huge pile of "It would be nice to" ideas and a smaller pile of "lets do this" ideas.

Yes, but if I am not interested in using such an idea, what makes me think others will? Light rail is a nice idea. However, you do realize that there is no free lunch. You will pay for it one way or the other. One of the reason we have our cars is because it gives us the freedom to come and go as we please and not at the choosing of some schedule. Would I trade that? Not if I could afford it.

mplafleur · #44 12-02-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabor

Hydrogen powered cars could be powered with zero carbon foot print. However, first we will either need advances in bio-engineering algae to produce the hydrogen for us or more solar/wind/nuclear/hydro power.

Exhausting only water vapor.

And do you know what the number one greenhouse gas is?

Water vapor!

Matt L · #45 12-02-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mplafleur

Exhausting only water vapor.

And do you know what the number one greenhouse gas is?

Water vapor!

Please tell me that you don't really think that this argument has merit.

Sure, water vapor holds heat. But once you get enough of it in the atmosphere, it rains.