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  #16  
Old 01-29-2008, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by thesst View Post
You should NEVER run "straight" WVO. Always always always cut with 10% diesel.

There have been tests done on the polymerization properties of diesel, biodiesel, SVO, WVO, and WVO cut with 10% diesel. Only straight WVO (even filtered and dewatered) causes polymerization issues. When cut with D2, that polymerization is about 99% eliminated. So... if you're running SVO, then if it's hot enough it's fine. Not the case with WVO.
That is a very common misconception. Polymerization is a fairly complex reaction involving FFA's, oxygen, heat, a catalyst (steel and copper being the best), and time. SVO is not completely without FFA's and will polymerize given the right conditions. The few actual documented tests comparing different fuels produced mixed results. Cutting with D2 will at best slow the process down to a negligable rate.

An actual document test can be found here(pdf).

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  #17  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by validius View Post
Even better idea! If you want obscene fuel economy buy a VW TDI and run it on D2. If you want a nice classic car then drive an old Mercedes and burn the fuel that it was designed to burn.
The Diesel engine was designed to burn veggie oil . . .diesel fuel is named after the engine and designer.
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by beenine View Post

I read on here before that 5-10% regular unleaded gas was the correct fuel to cut the WVO with. Now I hear that 10% diesel. I dont want to start anymore trouble so I'll do some more searching.

THANKS for all the input. GREAT STUFF!
Please don't put gasoline in your engine.
Those who do will need to seriously blend the oil and the gas together before introducing this into the tank. You don't want the engine to get a bit of oil and then a bit of gas. And the two don't like each other and don't blend that easily. Diesel and oil are better and there is almost no blending needed. I always do to be safe, 5 gallon bucket, oil and diesel and one of those beverage mixers (i own a bar and have a 1 hp blender-great tool) and then add to the tank with the rest of the oil.
Biodiesel in the winter for me. Too #@&%$ cold here to use any real amount of WVO. I have a friend who picks up the oil once a week and leaves me a bit of bio in trade. I add that to the tank to at least help lube up the engine in the cold winter.
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wyrick View Post
That is a very common misconception. Polymerization is a fairly complex reaction involving FFA's, oxygen, heat, a catalyst (steel and copper being the best), and time. SVO is not completely without FFA's and will polymerize given the right conditions. The few actual documented tests comparing different fuels produced mixed results. Cutting with D2 will at best slow the process down to a negligable rate.

An actual document test can be found here(pdf).
You are correct that SVO CAN cause polymerization. But it is an EXTREMELY slow process. Slowing the process of polymerization to a "negligible" rate by cutting with diesel is exactly what is wanted. This is the report I was referring to: Polymerization Report.

As to cutting with RUG vs. D2: either will work, BUT: D2 naturally mixes much better into the VO just putting it into the tank (this can be shown by taking samples from your tank). RUG you will need to THOROUGHLY premix before adding to the tank. This alone makes D2 a more desirable mixer than RUG.
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:40 PM
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Confused

As soon as I get my car up to speed...ie, vacuum system air tight, valves adjusted and leak on gasket cleared up, glow plug holes reamed and plugs replaced, I plan on converting to run on WVO too. I've done a lot of research over the past several years, and nowhere does it seem possible to have a single tank system in cold weather unless you start cutting your wvo/svo with either kerosene, rug, or diesel...kind of defeats the purpose of going WVO in my mind..ie, .being greener, not relying on big oil for fuel, and finally, being cheap and saving $.

Just my opinion...
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  #21  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:47 PM
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No matter what you'll have to use diesel or kero. If you're doing a single tank, you'll need to cut with diesel. If you're doing a dual tank, you'll need to start up on diesel and shut down on diesel (and should still cut with diesel in the VO).

If you're concerned about "being green" bio-d would probably work in place of diesel, albeit not as well.
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by imagesinthewind View Post
The Diesel engine was designed to burn veggie oil . . .diesel fuel is named after the engine and designer.
There was an engine designed to burn peanut oil. However, it is not under the hood of your car. Yours is designed to burn diesel fuel.

Gasoline and diesel fuels have changed greatly since their inceptions, always being modified to work best in the latest engines. At the same time, the engines are being modified to use modern fuel. You may be able to produce gasoline exactly as it was being sold in the early 20th century, but it would not be advised to run it in a modern engine.
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:31 PM
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is a 5 gal jug of WVO out on the back porch that is sitting in very cold weather and it was golden and clear in summer temps but now has the consitancy of yogurt. food for thought.
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2008, 08:48 AM
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MODERATOR'S COMMENTS


This thread had 40 posts when I arrived this morning. 18 of those posts had no benefit to the OP and consisted of members who bash WVO without any posted data or personal results, members who claim to know the origin of the diesel engine, members who post screen shots of men in battle, and various petty little shots at other members.

ALL THESE POSTS ARE NOW DELETED


If you wish to make a positive contribution to this thread in a respectful manner, please continue to post.........otherwise, stay off the thread!!
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  #25  
Old 01-30-2008, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by n0rt75o View Post
is a 5 gal jug of WVO out on the back porch that is sitting in very cold weather and it was golden and clear in summer temps but now has the consitancy of yogurt. food for thought.
This is characteristic of hydrogenated oils. I pick up non-hydrogenated oil from a sushi place. They put it in a bucket behind their restaurant and its very pourable/flowable. Thinner than syrup at room temp.

To the OP...Elsbett makes a single tank kit that's arguably the best one on the market, and its not cheap. But I still don't think its a good idea to squirt cold oil into your combustion chamber (vegtherm...injector line heaters...whatever, the oil still isn't at the magic 160*F). That's just my opinion, I have no first hand evidence. But I feel much safer starting on diesel (bio-d in the summer) and switching. If you REALLY want to single tank it, you can spend $200-300 and build a biodiesel reactor. It takes more work than to just clean VO, but your car will thank you. You'll still have to cut that with diesel in the winter, depending on how cold it gets where you are.
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
MODERATOR'S COMMENTS






This thread had 40 posts when I arrived this morning. 18 of those posts had no benefit to the OP and consisted of members who bash WVO without any posted data or personal results, members who claim to know the origin of the diesel engine, members who post screen shots of men in battle, and various petty little shots at other members.

ALL THESE POSTS ARE NOW DELETED


If you wish to make a positive contribution to this thread in a respectful manner, please continue to post.........otherwise, stay off the thread!!
I posted the screen shots to lighten things up a bit. People take this topic of debate way too personally. I was just trying to bring some humor and mitigate the animosity.

I sincerely apologize if anyone was offended.
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  #27  
Old 01-30-2008, 05:52 PM
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One solution to Polymerization is to remove the FFA from your WVA, the process is a bit tricky because you need to perform a process called titration. Once the titration is completed you know the level of your FFA. At this point you calculate the correct amount of lye and water to add to the oil it will create soap out of the FFA first then the virgin (read fuel ready) oil. You should be very precise (just like biodiesel creation) and you will have near virgin oil and a bunch of soap chips and bits.

Simply filter out the soap and leftover water, and wammo! you got yourself a bunch of virgin oil.

I use this for creation of Biodiesel as a step in cleaning the oil of the FFA because the FFA will not react in my processor. FFA can get as bad as 15% to 20% in WVO. And ALWAYS filter to .5 micron or better (just heat the oil to about 140 degrees F and push through a three stage filter system of your own make, screen 100 micron, sock filters for the rest).

In my humble opinion if you go through this process just make biodiesel and and you can run in neat even in the winter if you are already set up to run SVO/WVO. All the proper parts are heated already and at freezing biodiesel is gelled and liquid while SVO/WVO is a block of sludge.
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2008, 10:37 PM
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I would not recommend svenelven's suggestion because you are likely to end up with fuel tainted with water and soap. Water is already an enemy in any fuel. Why add more? Also, removing soap is not as easily as you might think. I have seen biodiesel twice washed and settled then filtered only have a sample show dirty when ran through magnesol and amberlite afterward.

IMO you would end up with worse fuel with the hassle of using more supplies and time.
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2008, 03:22 AM
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Well obviously if you DID svenelven's suggestion you would de-water your oil after the process. So there's nothing wrong with doing as he suggested. But he's right: if you're going to go to that trouble, just go ahead and finish the job and make bio-d.
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2008, 07:41 AM
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He actually didn't make mention of dewatering the fuel only filterting it out. I assumed he meant heat->settle->decant fuel->filter-> and then push through a water block like Goldenrod or Racor. My point is soap helps water stay suspended in oil and you are either going to burnt through water water blocks fast or you are going to end up with water in your fuel.

I agree that you might as well just make biodiesel. Anybody that brews their own will tell you that it is much easier said than done. You end up with many gallons of soapy, emulsified trash before you get it right.

Bad fuel of any type is a great way to ruin a perfectly running engine so test anything you make.

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