hydrogen gen - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

patbob · #16 04-19-2008, 11:21 AM

Ever see soot coming out the tailpipe? Unburnt fuel.

Ever see smoke coming out the tailpipe? Unburnt fuel.

Ever smell diesel exhaust? Unbrunt fuel.

I wonder what it would do to your fuel efficiency if you could burn all that unburnt diesel fuel? Thermodynamics says it would make your efficiency go up.

There is evidence that these systems do accomplish this.. not to a great degree, but easily as much as putting the proper air pressure in your tires.

#17 04-19-2008, 08:40 PM

Ever see soot coming out the tailpipe? Poorly tuned engine.

Ever see smoke coming out the tailpipe? Soot is smoke.

Ever smell diesel exhaust? Ever smell any engines exhaust?

hey_allen · #18 04-20-2008, 12:10 AM

And how would adding more fuel (hydrogen) make the engine run more efficiently, if it already has unburned fuel going out the exhaust?

This is why many of our cars came stock with a turbo charger, and why gasoline powered cars often add nitrous oxide. (The 'oxide' part of NOS? yeah, when you heat up nitrous oxide, the oxygen molecules are freed to add oxygen to the combustion, as well as cooling the combustion. More oxygen, to the point that they often have to add more fuel to prevent going too lean and burning up the gasoline engines!)

More oxygen, sure, but more fuel? Nah...

#19 04-20-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hey_allen

And how would adding more fuel (hydrogen) make the engine run more efficiently, if it already has unburned fuel going out the exhaust?

It dosen't. It is a substitute fuel giving the illusion of higher efficiency by reducing the consumption of the primary fuel (Diesel).

Quote:

This is why many of our cars came stock with a turbo charger, and why gasoline powered cars often add nitrous oxide. (The 'oxide' part of NOS? yeah, when you heat up nitrous oxide, the oxygen molecules are freed to add oxygen to the combustion, as well as cooling the combustion. More oxygen, to the point that they often have to add more fuel to prevent going too lean and burning up the gasoline engines!)

No, the reason they add a turbo or use nitrous is more power, not efficiency. Fuel has to be added to gas engines to maintain the air/fien ratio.

Quote:

More oxygen, sure, but more fuel? Nah

Research some more please.

Cervan · #20 04-20-2008, 03:54 AM

i would say run propane fumigation.

#21 04-20-2008, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cervan

i would say run propane fumigation.

If you want to waste money.

If you want more power, turn up the injection pump. If you want better actual fuel economy, drive slower and more gingerly.

Cervan · #22 04-20-2008, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

If you want to waste money.

If you want more power, turn up the injection pump. If you want better actual fuel economy, drive slower and more gingerly.

Not quite, ive actually done a few of these conversions, Costs about 10$ in propane every two weeks, and you can run on one 5gal tank for about two weeks, (Depending on how you drive of course) the propane actually cleans up the burn by burning all the air in the combustion chamber that the diesel doesnt. (Allthough if you add too much propane you will get black smoke, incomplete combustion the propane is robbing the engine of air) You wont notice more than 3-4 more HP but it works well at an efficiency standpoint. You will get more power increase with the more displacement of the engine.

#23 04-20-2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cervan

burning all the air in the combustion chamber that the diesel doesnt.

Thats my point. All the air IS burned by the diesel is you have black smoke. If you have extra air then turn up the fuel limiter to use the extra air for free instead of blowing a few hundred $$$ on a bunch of junk to only get 3-4hp.

Hatterasguy · #24 04-20-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

He will also probably win the nobel prize for physics for disproving the second law of thermodynamics after about 175 years.

Well the guys who sell them online can figure it out!

ConnClark · #25 04-20-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patbob

Ever see soot coming out the tailpipe? Unburnt fuel.

Ever see smoke coming out the tailpipe? Unburnt fuel.

Ever smell diesel exhaust? Unbrunt fuel.

I wonder what it would do to your fuel efficiency if you could burn all that unburnt diesel fuel? Thermodynamics says it would make your efficiency go up.

There is evidence that these systems do accomplish this.. not to a great degree, but easily as much as putting the proper air pressure in your tires.

Its true hydrogen does promote slightly more complete combustion but so does PowerService. Diesel engines under ordinary load have very very low unburned hydrocarbon emissions in comparison to gasoline engines. I doubt strongly that a hydrogen generator powered by the alternator would improve combustion enough to offset the additional load placed on the engine. Maybe you could gang enough thermocouples together to produce the electricity required off of waste heat but then I would have to wonder if the increase in weight would offset any gains.

Its far more effective to invest in a good turbo and intercooler.

Oldbeaver · #26 06-08-2008, 09:49 PM

There are many links out there. It seems to be simple: you just connect the HHO output to the air input of the engine.

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=usaws

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell6789

does anyone in this forum have a diagram on how to hookup a hydrogen generator to a 84 300d turbo diesel? which uses biodiesel also?

#27 06-08-2008, 10:37 PM

The scams are made to be very simple and misleading to generate as much income as possible. Its not as simple as "hook it up to the intake".

Cervan · #28 06-09-2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

Mythbusters showed it does not work, on a gasser. They had to spray liquid hydrogen into the carb to make it run. A backfire made them stop.

That was not liquid hydrogen, it does work but it requires much more than is possible with the current technology. It takes about 6 liters per minute to provide any significant impact in fuel mileage. Im not saying that i would convert my car to propane fumigation, but its just something to throw out there.

WD8CDH · #29 06-09-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Do a little more research, propane is just an additional fuel. It does not alter the combustion of the Diesel engine unless too much is injected and the flame fronts collide after the propane preignites.

Propane is not just an additional fuel. It does alter the combustion. By having a lean fuel air mixture in the combustion chamber that is too lean to be lite by compression, you still get a change in flame propagation once the diesel fuel is ignited. The improvement is small but it is more than just the extra BTu of the fumigating fuel. I have even measured slight improvements in a diesel engine's bsfc (and emissions) when fumigated with diesel fuel. I have also used various alcohols, propane, butane, hydrogen, natural gas (methane), paint thinner, turpentine and even gasoline for fumigating fuels. ALL gave slight improvements over injection thru the injectors alone. Hydrogen because of the energy needed to break it down from water is probably the worst choice. Methane from decomposing garbage may be the best fuel to fumigate with.

#30 06-09-2008, 04:48 PM

Its only an additional fuel. It does not change how the Diesel burns.