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  #16  
Old 05-20-2008, 12:43 PM
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Just how does this automated machine titrate the oil to determine the amount of catalyst? Thats a very important step due to variances in the Oil quality...

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  #17  
Old 05-20-2008, 12:48 PM
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Maybe it dose it's own PH test and measures how acidic it is ?
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2008, 01:12 PM
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I thought the automatic machine from Northern Tool was pretty neat until I did some math. If you amortize the cost of the machine based on the highest price I have paid for regular diesel fuel (which was $4.59gal last week) that would be equivalent to the cost of approx. 1808 gallons of pumped fuel or 61,472 total miles of highway driving for me. That is not including the cost of the ethenol, lye, time, space, electricity to run the thing.
I would have to drive the length of the equator 2 1/2 times to break even.....
It would have to be just a "Labor of Love" or an expensive hobby .
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Last edited by F18; 05-20-2008 at 01:22 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2008, 01:37 PM
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There's surely lots of cheaper machines out there, and you can make your own also. btw, I believe ethanol will not do the trick to remove the glycerin and it's Methanol that
you need. Highly flammable. When gas gets to $8 next year, and diesel is who knows where, you can reformulate your calculations. Maybe only one trip around the equator!
LOL
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F18 View Post
I thought the automatic machine from Northern Tool was pretty neat until I did some math. If you amortize the cost of the machine based on the highest price I have paid for regular diesel fuel (which was $4.59gal last week) that would be equivalent to the cost of approx. 1808 gallons of pumped fuel or 61,472 total miles of highway driving for me. That is not including the cost of the ethenol, lye, time, space, electricity to run the thing.
I would have to drive the length of the equator 2 1/2 times to break even.....
It would have to be just a "Labor of Love" or an expensive hobby .
Or if you have some friends in the neighborhood who are willing to help pay for and then do their own processing it can pay for itself in a year.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2008, 01:52 PM
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Yep... I would be blowing myself up using Ethanol instead of Methanol would'nt I? Sometimes the mind is a dangerous thing!

You would definitly need to set up a cooporative between friends and neighbors....if you could find enough of them that drive diesels to invest in the automatic machine, that would be slick!
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2008, 02:05 PM
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I thought of starting a Bio-Diesel "exchange". People would bring me WVO/SVO which I would test for usability and then make bio-d and give it back to them at a lower rate say, .5 gal of finished fuel out for every gal in or something like that. that way, I have extra left over for me to use and I won't have to seek WVO! Plus, I'm not "selling" it.
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2008, 02:16 PM
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I am waiting for the day you have to pay for waste oil... Its coming.
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2008, 02:19 PM
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I am waiting for the day you have to pay for waste oil... Its coming.
It's already here in some places.
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2008, 02:26 PM
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Based on a petro-diesel cost of 5.00/gal., and a cost of manufacture of the biodiesel (including methanol and your acids and bases and other raw materials, including electricity) of 2.00/gal., the 50 gallon capacity model would pay for itself in 112 days. Assuming you could use and or sell the 25 gallons per day as an equivalent reduction in the up-front cost of the machine. Not bad.
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2008, 02:37 PM
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I run a blend in my cars, and also make biodiesel for my home furnace.

The blend is from taking the best oil off the top, filtering it, mixing with about gasoline (about 10%), and running that in two Mercedes. Cost of the filtering system is about $60.

The not-so-good oil I pour into my biodiesel reactor. I used to titrate each batch, but my numbers came out the same so often that I just use a typical amount of lye and about 18% methanol, and I'm good to go. For BD, it takes about $500 to get started, and you need 110v, fresh water, and compressed air available.

The blend has gone 45,000 miles in two MBs and also powers a diesel generator to occasionally get off the grid and have a true low-fossil house.

I haven't tried the blend in the house boiler yet (it runs all year for domestic hot water), so it gets washed and dried biodiesel.
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spark3542 View Post
I run a blend in my cars, and also make biodiesel for my home furnace.

The blend is from taking the best oil off the top, filtering it, mixing with about gasoline (about 10%), and running that in two Mercedes. Cost of the filtering system is about $60.

The not-so-good oil I pour into my biodiesel reactor. I used to titrate each batch, but my numbers came out the same so often that I just use a typical amount of lye and about 18% methanol, and I'm good to go. For BD, it takes about $500 to get started, and you need 110v, fresh water, and compressed air available.

The blend has gone 45,000 miles in two MBs and also powers a diesel generator to occasionally get off the grid and have a true low-fossil house.

I haven't tried the blend in the house boiler yet (it runs all year for domestic hot water), so it gets washed and dried biodiesel.
Mark...your my hero! Those are the kind of numbers that make sense.
A $500 start-up investment is a lot different than a $8300 machine. And your doing everything with it....heat, hot water and transportation...now thats fantastic!
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2008, 03:40 PM
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It's already here in some places.
It's here in Austin TX. Restaurants are practically holding bidding wars with grease companies to see who will pay them the most. Most times when I approach a restaurant asking to take their oil, the response is "how much are you paying?".

Sucks!
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  #29  
Old 05-21-2008, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
I am waiting for the day you have to pay for waste oil... Its coming.
While I should never condone guerilla tactics, being well trained in counterinsurgency, we've taken to midnite "suck and runs".

Winmutt is correct, we are finding a VERY hard time sourcing oil, adn do end up "skimming" some from the few local haulers who have the restaurants sown up. We have two bio facilities here, one running fully, and they are sucking up WVO like you cant beleive.

The day is here.

BTW, suck and run equpt is a plastic 55 ga drum ( we use two and try adn get 100 gals a run), 15" of hose, and a good 12v pump. I havent needed any "heaters" yet!

Oh and BTW, that "secret diesel" stuff. I never said I told him so, BUT my freinds Duramax is having issues with the first tankful of that CRAP. As I told my buddy, its not that hard to do it the RIGHT way. Do it right, or buy it. Dont "cheap out" or get lazy. You will pay. He's calling D&W Diesel to see about cleaning his injectors! OUCH!

Last edited by WINGAS; 05-21-2008 at 12:40 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:25 PM
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Ethanol will indeed work... however its much trickier to get it to work. It has to be very free of water, for one thing, and its affinity for water is greater than Methanol is. They both do like water but Ethanol more so and the whole procedure gets a little bit difficult when using it we are seeing. Its just simply easier to use Methanol. However we are doing some work here using Ethanol as we are attempting to do a complete Bio/Off grid/agricultural by product full loop thing. We are using Solar Power to run the electrical grid for the "Still" and back up power by Bio Diesel fueled Generator and Ethanol/Sodium Hydroxide catalyst and various Oil sources, including waste oils. Then the small truck we use to go get the Oil is, of course, Bio Diesel powered. We do have a lot of problems dealing with Ethanol in that process though. We are also working with some alternate sources of Base for the catalyst too. Hopefully, in the end, it will all be self sustaining, renewable, and Agricultural products doing the entire thing.

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