My WVO diesel school project - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

sixto · #16 06-20-2008, 01:44 PM

Are you going to build a car or install a kit?

Is your objective to complete a circuit for a grade or have a car you can live with long term? Just about any MB Diesel will go 2000 miles on WVO if it'll go 2000 miles on pump Diesel... even without modifications this time of year. Just filter, pour and go. I'd put a little money on that endeavor (wager, not contribution

). I'm not sure what you'd be left with enginewise at the end of the trip.

If you want a WVO car to take you beyond high school, 6 weeks isn't enough time for a newbie to do a conversion, let alone get it running reliably enough for a cross-country trip.

Sixto
87 300D

probear · #17 06-20-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colincoon

So wait, are you guys saying that even after I ask the owner for VO that it's theft? I said I wasn't going to take ANY oil unless it was given the OK from whoever is in charge at the time of my arrival, so it wouldn't be theft. Maybe I'm just misreading...

I have heard that they are now starting to charge for it in some places, but how much would you say it costs? If its the same a diesel, then thats just pointless. I would hope that after explaining what my project is that they wouldn't charge me for it, but then again what makes me different from anybody else, right?

But do you think that if I established contact with places for VO well before I left for my trip, would that help? I think I remember hearing that there are filters and pumps that can seperate the water out of it among other things, where can I find those? Does the onboard greasecar filter/pump do that?

Thanks for the help again guys, I appreciate it.

OK, here's the lowdown.....
If the oil is in a container outside whether a barrel or oil container, the oil belongs to whoever owns the container. Once the owner puts the oil in the container, it becomes property of the container's owner, despite what the owner says. If the owner wants to give you oil, he can must put it into a container that he owns.
I'm afraid that it's going to be a little harder to get oil on the road legally than you think.

lowriderdog37 · #18 06-20-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe

...not only for theft, but also the "crime" of hauling waste oil, for which you are supposed to have a license, and can get a major fine. Food for thought.

California is having several issues with transporting oil...several states have made it legal to use WVO, but for most it's technically illegal due to not paying road taxes on fuel.

Whenever you do determine a route, get on the forums, there should be plenty of people out there that can help out with a few gallons of fuel while on the road.

colincoon · #19 06-20-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

Are you going to build a car or install a kit?

Is your objective to complete a circuit for a grade or have a car you can live with long term? Just about any MB Diesel will go 2000 miles on WVO if it'll go 2000 miles on pump Diesel... even without modifications this time of year. Just filter, pour and go. I'd put a little money on that endeavor (wager, not contribution

). I'm not sure what you'd be left with enginewise at the end of the trip.

If you want a WVO car to take you beyond high school, 6 weeks isn't enough time for a newbie to do a conversion, let alone get it running reliably enough for a cross-country trip.

Sixto
87 300D

For now, I'm installing a kit. I WOULD like to build my own two tank system, but I don't have the knowledge or tools to do so, because like you said I'm a newbie!

Also, the trip itself is 6 weeks right now, and could possibly be a whole 3 months. I would put the kit together, get it running reliably, and plan everything out well in advance on my own spare time. Thats why I'm starting now, a good 6 months in advance to find out everything I can about WVO and get the project done correctly.

The point of the trip is not to see if a car can run on WVO, we already know that it can, but to more or less show how much of an alternative fuel source culture there is out there and that people are interested in alternative fuels that WORK and alternative fuels can work. I need to really work on getting the message pinpointed so when prompted (like I am now, ha) I can give a straightforward answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by probear

OK, here's the lowdown.....
If the oil is in a container outside whether a barrel or oil container, the oil belongs to whoever owns the container. Once the owner puts the oil in the container, it becomes property of the container's owner, despite what the owner says. If the owner wants to give you oil, he can must put it into a container that he owns.
I'm afraid that it's going to be a little harder to get oil on the road legally than you think.

Ahhh okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah that does make things a bit difficult because I'm assuming that once they are done with the oil, they just pour it in the container, right? Hummm, I guess thats one thing I have to work on. I'm open to suggestions on how to "get around" that (for lack of a better term) too. I was planning on carrying cubies with me, so maybe having the owner pour it in there would help?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowriderdog37

Whenever you do determine a route, get on the forums, there should be plenty of people out there that can help out with a few gallons of fuel while on the road.

Definitely. I said I was taking donations and such, but I wasn't really specific in saying that I will take ANYTHING relating to the project, not just money. WVO would be one of those things, absoultely. I'll let you guys know more in the coming months when I get a route set in stone, but really that would be awesome.

Also, on a side note, do any of you have the Golden Fuel Systems One Shot filtering system? It looks great for what I'm planning on doing. Just wondering.

Thanks again guys!

cphilip · #20 06-20-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by probear

OK, here's the lowdown.....
If the oil is in a container outside whether a barrel or oil container, the oil belongs to whoever owns the container. Once the owner puts the oil in the container, it becomes property of the container's owner, despite what the owner says. If the owner wants to give you oil, he can must put it into a container that he owns.
I'm afraid that it's going to be a little harder to get oil on the road legally than you think.

This gets complicated because its not so clear all the time.

According to the EPA, that oil is still the responsibility of the "generator" and that oil is still his. If it spills or leaks the person putting it into the container, and on who's property the oil sits, is still the owner and still responsible for proper containment and clean up. The liability does not transfer until it is "on the road in transport, and then it is under DOT regulations as it is being hauled for commercial purposes. And since Waste Cooking oil is not a Hazardous Waste, the ownership can and does transfer. If it was a HW it would never transfer from the Generator. So, the contractual agreement between you and the buyer might state its not yours but your still responsible for it and your responsible to see that the vendor has a proper container and it is maintained and does not leak. If it does then your responsible if you generated it. Not the Vendor that buys it. He/she may be liable to you for that but it then will be up to you to take him/her to court and collect for your damages. Because the EPA will come after you first. Under SPCC regulations, anything 55 Gallons or more must be in secondary containment. Cooking oils are covered. And the generator is responsible for seeing that this is done. Not the hauler.

We recently had to have our vendor remove all his containers and we had to place our own. Because he doesn't care but we must. You would be surprised how many non compliant waste oil containers are still out there because the Generator does not realize it is his responsibility and the Vendor doesn't know better nor care. This SPCC rule including Cooking oils is fairly new.

bob_98sr5 · #21 06-20-2008, 04:16 PM

as others have said, make sure the vehicle is in near perfect shape which includes engine and suspension. as i've found out, a 20 yr old vehicle's suspension bushings will not be in good shape. they will eat your tires alive

i have serious misgivings about the probability that you can line up your WVO sources along your drive with restaurants / owners you dont know.

probear · #22 06-20-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_98sr5

........
i have serious misgivings about the probability that you can line up your WVO sources along your drive with restaurants / owners you dont know.

I would do a field titration like we do for biodiesel, and then do the water test (heat up the oil to see how much water is in it)

Needless to say, filtering is just as important, especially since the oil you will be getting has not been settling long.

colincoon · #23 06-20-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_98sr5

as others have said, make sure the vehicle is in near perfect shape which includes engine and suspension. as i've found out, a 20 yr old vehicle's suspension bushings will not be in good shape. they will eat your tires alive

i have serious misgivings about the probability that you can line up your WVO sources along your drive with restaurants / owners you dont know.

This is another thing that was debated over on the Rev. I wanted to find a 300TD in fairly good condition and drop no more that 6k for the car, thus the high amount of money I need to raise. They were telling me to buy an old beater for a lot less than that and replace things that need replacing, and it'll be fine. I was going to do the same with the 300TD if I got one in nice condition (go over it with a fine tooth comb that is), but my theory was that the better condition it's in, the less likely it is to have huge problems. Am I right to think that? Since then I have left my vehicle choice open to input and haven't decided on anything yet. I know my 190E sat for 14 out of its 20 years (got it at 20,xxx 6 months ago) and even then it needed things replaced because it sat for so long. So what kind of condition car should I be looking for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by probear

I would do a field titration like we do for biodiesel, and then do the water test (heat up the oil to see how much water is in it)

Needless to say, filtering is just as important, especially since the oil you will be getting has not been settling long.

Right, I know that the clearer the oil, the less amount of crap thats going to be in it, so I'm not afraid to turn down oil if it really looks like crap. Cloudy = moisture, right? But what other ways can I go about the titration, or is visual enough? For the water test, should I bring something like a hot pan in the trunk to test for water that way? This Golden Fuel Systems filter pump takes out a lot of the water apparently, so I'm really leaning towards one of those setups.

So it looks like right now my biggest problem is getting the oil while on the go. I'm pretty sure I can get my family and friends to help me out finding locations near them for VO, but its the inbetween fillups that I'll have problems with. See, this is why I'm starting now!

Really guys, you're being a huge help and I seriously appreciate the advice you've given me. Keep it coming though, I know I have a lot to learn about this and thats all part of the project.

Thanks again.

Shorebilly · #24 06-20-2008, 05:49 PM

I am glad that you followed the link over here......much more info on Diesels and WVO.......

As I said over at 190 Revolution.......luck to ya.....

Look around here and find a guy named Bill Hunter......or perhaps he will find you......he can be very helpful as far as the car that you choose goes.....

SB

colincoon · #25 06-20-2008, 08:30 PM

^Yeah thanks for sending me over here, lots of great info already. I'll look him up if he doesn't find this first!

retx · #26 06-20-2008, 11:25 PM

colin. id suggest checking out frybrid.com as well. just for info sake. and check out http://www.fillup4free.com/ for a very informative national map of wvo users. if youre coming thru charleston wv, i can definitely give you some filtered, dewatered wvo. good luck. dont let the naysayers, nonbelievers, reversethinkers stop you from attempting your goal.

Biglex · #27 06-21-2008, 12:08 AM

Be sure to mention that you are doing this for a school project. I am sure this will have some influence on them.

colincoon · #28 06-21-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbail2x2

you might try lining up potential pickup locations before the trip. (do you have unlimited longdistance on a cell phone?) I have found Mom 'n Pop resturants are better to get oil from than chain stores like McD or Wendy's. some Chinese takeout's may have a cubey with a few gallons but many will say "come back tomorrow or next week" you will need a filter setup (real messy). I would try to get a icechest or some other container that is odor proof to store everything in while not in use. (station wagon is a good idea) carry a spray degreaser for cleanup. oil will NOT wash away with water alone, makes a slippery mess. be prepared for junk and water in the oil. and rats.
As far as the SVO setup, I've seen some that have one switch inside that changes everything over. how big will the tank be? think in term of MPG & distance between pickup points. craigslist has a few older wagons listed.
When you go to a pickup for oil you may explain you are doing this as a high school project and crossing the USA, brings up the gung ho attitude in some. I wish you the best and my prayers are with you.
Oh before I go, I just sold a 90 Jetta that got 37 MPG, pretty trustworthy too. my 300CD won't get that.

Oh definitely, I'll have an entire cleaning kit with me somewhere in the trunk! I'm not really a neat freak, which is good in this case, but I do like to take the time to make everything look "presentable" every so often. After just frying stuff in the deep fryer, I can see how messy this stuff is! This is another reason why I think the wagon would be a good vehicle for the trip, because I have to transport all of this stuff with me. Its a tough decision between space of a 300TD and the mpg with some of the 240 and 190D's!

I've been looking at Craigslist and eBay for a while now to see if something somewhat local shows up, and every now and then I can find something pretty interesting thats worth taking a look. When it comes time to actually purchase a car, I'll get more serious and start contacting people, taking test drives, etc.

Oh, and I learned to drive standard on an 89 Jetta TDi with 300,000 on the clock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by retx

colin. id suggest checking out frybrid.com as well. just for info sake. and check out http://www.fillup4free.com/ for a very informative national map of wvo users. if youre coming thru charleston wv, i can definitely give you some filtered, dewatered wvo. good luck. dont let the naysayers, nonbelievers, reversethinkers stop you from attempting your goal.

I had seen frybrid before when searching for WVO kits, but the other one is new to me, I'll definitely consult it when the time comes to start plotting my route. If I'm out that way, I'll see what I can do about stopping through, but really thank you for the offer! And the support!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biglex

Be sure to mention that you are doing this for a school project. I am sure this will have some influence on them.

Yes I definitely will. I'm sure that it will have some more weight if I bring that up, which is always good.

One quick question...

Where do you guys find the best WVO from? I heard Japanese restaurants are good because they really don't fry a whole lot of fatty foods, is that true? Also I heard Mexican places are good because they usually don't fry much more than tortillas and some lean meats, not sure though.

Thanks again guys for the advice, it's much appreciated.

Sbean · #29 06-21-2008, 02:42 AM

I've been using WVO, usually just settled and fabric-filtered and blended with 10% RUG (regular unleaded gasoline) for about 3 years in two 1980 Mercedes 300 TDs. Generally oriental restaurants have the best oil. Definitely join Fillup4free. You'll find me on their map in central California. I'll have some oil for you, and a place to park for a while. If you start with an old car, either get the fuel tank cleaned well or expect clogged filters for a while until the gunk from years of #2 diesel is cleaned out of the tank and lines. In my case, the primary filter (plastic one, less than $2.00) caught all the junk; I soon learned to change it out in 5 minutes and sometimes just drained it out and got rid of most of the dirt. Steve

300SD81 · #30 06-21-2008, 03:59 AM

What kind of school so you go to? Its not public, is it? The most I got from my school about producing biodiesel is a picture and misquoted one-liner in the yearbook, and thats only because I had friends on the yearbook staff...

I got a few gallons of clean VO for you if your coming through Atlanta.