SVO blending question - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rcounts · #46 06-26-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmari

If you're going to blend with SVO you might as well NOT re-invent the wheel. Do some searches for "Schur Ecofuel". Hans Peter Schur was playing with blends back in the early 90's. He successfully ran his blend in unmodified IDI MB's. He had a 300D OM603 and had the motor taken apart to prove it worked (http://members.aol.com/hpschur/raps.html). In fact the independent report said that the motor was actually cleaner each time they tore it down. He even has a viscosity table, but you'll have to lose you're preconcieved idea that RUG is bad when blending. I spoke to the guy about 5 years ago and at that time, he said the car was still running.

Hey, I'm always willing to be proven wrong on my notions - preconcieved or otherwise!

I'm assuming that you reccomended a search due to the fact that the website the link leads to is in German?

EDIT: Well, I did a search and turned up 3 pages of hits. About half of them weren't anything related to diesel engine fuel, about a quarter of them were infopop threads that mention the name - but gave no detailed info, and the rest were in German. Got a link to an ENGLISH site that talks about what Hans came up with?

ZackaryMac · #47 06-26-2008, 10:25 PM

I went to the local wholesaler today, to price up and probably get some new canola oil....till they told me it's up $10 MORE for a 16 liter pail...now up to $31.99 for only 16 liters.

I don't think so. If I drove 100 miles to a major city, I might be able to find it cheaper. Again, no way.

So the SVO idea is off. Guess I'll just keep paying $7.11/imp gallon for dino, instead of $9.08 a gallon of SVO.

Nice to see the SVO is way up, so no one would want to burn it in their vehicles.

rcounts · #48 06-27-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZackaryMac

...Nice to see the SVO is way up, so no one would want to burn it in their vehicles.

What's that? Sour grapes?

pmari · #49 06-27-2008, 01:20 PM

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://members.aol.com/hpschur/raps.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dschur%2Becofuel%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

You can search this site also. The EU (especially Germany) has many more SVO (canola/rape seed) blenders. You will need to speak German to get in on the discussions in their forums. If you don't mind decifering the crappy search engines translators you can also try "Schur-Mischung" The large fuel supplier he worked for is called Tessol. Schur Ecofuel is also called "Tessol NADI" (NADI is the acronym for natural diesel)

rcounts · #50 06-27-2008, 01:24 PM

Well I FINALLY found some info on Schur Ecofuel. Apparently the most comon blend of ingredients is 80/16/4 of veg oil, RUG, and isopropyl alcohol.
In my 21 gallon tank that translates to about 17 gallons SVO, 3 gallons RUG, and a gallon of pure isopropyl alcohol

Now anybody know where in the heck a guy can get pure (no water) isopropyl alcohol by the gallon?!?

EDIT: I found a source. Electronics supply house. They only want $26 a gallon for the stuff (plus shipping of course).

pmari · #51 06-27-2008, 01:34 PM

Check your local chemical suppliers most biodiesel guys know where to get bulk methanol. The same places can get or carry 95-98% ISPA. There was a guy on the blenders list at infopop who lives in WA. and got recycled ISPA at a cheaper price. Ask for the lowest grade they carry, usually technical grade.

rcounts · #52 06-27-2008, 02:13 PM

Well running a few numbers, here's what I came up with...

$48 for 4 cubies oil, $13 for 3 gallons RUG, and $26 for a gallon of isopropyl alcohol comes up to $87 a tankful. 21 gallons of diesel at $4.80 a gallon is roughly $101. For $14 a tankful ($0.67 a gallon) savings it isn't worth it.

Maybe its time to proceed with building and installing the heating system to run straight SVO. At $2 a gallon savings it should pay for itself pretty quick.

Though I may give dannym's "winter blend" a try while I'm gathering the parts and building the heaters for my conversion. $48 for 4 cubies of oil and $20 for 4.5 gallons of RUG equals $68 a tankful - a savings of $33 or about a buck and a half a gallon...

rcounts · #53 06-27-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmari

Check your local chemical suppliers most biodiesel guys know where to get bulk methanol. The same places can get or carry 95-98% ISPA. There was a guy on the blenders list at infopop who lives in WA. and got recycled ISPA at a cheaper price. Ask for the lowest grade they carry, usually technical grade.

I located and called one. They'll get back to me in about an hour or so with prices on isopropyl (both new and recycled/reclaimed) and methanol (my buddy is making bio with his share of the oil and has been buying his at the racetrack for over $5 a gallon).

Thanks for the tip/suggestion, pmari...

pmari · #54 06-27-2008, 08:40 PM

You should be fine at his 80/20, If she's too grumpy on start-up, a gallon or 2 of k1 or d2 should smooth it out.

rcounts · #55 06-27-2008, 09:15 PM

Well, they got back to me - $854 for a 55 gallon drum of 99% pure isopropyl...
That's $15.52 a gallon

still pretty darned high...

Their methanol was even more expensive than the last barrel my buddy bought at the racetrack for $284 - they want $390 for a 55 gallon drum - almost $2 a gallon more than what he paid...

This $#!+ is getting ridiculous!

Looks like I'm going to be trying the 80% oil 20% RUG mix. Think maybe I ought to add some DieselKleen as a cetane improver since I'm leaving out the isopropyl?

On a brighter note, I just bought all the parts (except the shutoff valve and temp switch) to make the heat exchanger and glowplug heaters for my IP fuel line. That was only 50 bucks - not too bad.

The injector line electric heaters will be another $30, and the 2 temp switches will be around $25. The tubing and parts to make the heat exchanger for the injector lines should be pretty cheap - another $25 or so. Then add another $50-$75 or so for a couple of relays, a switch, a couple of LED indicator lights, and all the other little misc assorted stuff to hook it all up and I should have my heating system all put together for a grand total of $200 or less...

RichC · #56 06-27-2008, 10:55 PM

.

Another way to save money on blending is to use stale gasoline.
The stale gas will not raise the octane level nearly as much as fresh.
And it still thins veggie oil pretty well.

You can find sources of stale gas for free.
Places like the local marina, automotive recyclers, places that clean out old tanks.
They have to pay to get rid of it, and I am told are more than happy
to give it to you for free.

I have just started looking into finding a local supply for myself.
I found the information on biodiesel.infopop.cc, and I thought I
would pass it on to you guys.

Thank You
RichC

.

rcounts · #57 06-28-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

.

Another way to save money on blending is to use stale gasoline.
The stale gas will not raise the octane level nearly as much as fresh.
And it still thins veggie oil pretty well.

You can find sources of stale gas for free.
Places like the local marina, automotive recyclers, places that clean out old tanks.
They have to pay to get rid of it, and I am told are more than happy
to give it to you for free.

I have just started looking into finding a local supply for myself.
I found the information on biodiesel.infopop.cc, and I thought I
would pass it on to you guys.

Thank You
RichC

.

Good tip man! I'll check with a couple of the local wreckers!

Biglex · #58 06-28-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcounts

Well running a few numbers, here's what I came up with...

$48 for 4 cubies oil, $13 for 3 gallons RUG, and $26 for a gallon of isopropyl alcohol comes up to $87 a tankful. 21 gallons of diesel at $4.80 a gallon is roughly $101. For $14 a tankful ($0.67 a gallon) savings it isn't worth it.

Maybe its time to proceed with building and installing the heating system to run straight SVO. At $2 a gallon savings it should pay for itself pretty quick.

Though I may give dannym's "winter blend" a try while I'm gathering the parts and building the heaters for my conversion. $48 for 4 cubies of oil and $20 for 4.5 gallons of RUG equals $68 a tankful - a savings of $33 or about a buck and a half a gallon...

Where are you getting 4 cubies for $48? Is that svo or wvo?

rcounts · #59 06-28-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biglex

Where are you getting 4 cubies for $48? Is that svo or wvo?

What we are buying is pallet-loads of new 16 liter bags packaged in cardboard boxes for a certain fast-food chain. When one leaks and oil stains all the boxes on the pallet, they can't sell any of it for food use anymore due to the (remote) chance of it being contaminated. So then the distribution warehouse has to figure out how to get rid of it a whole pallet loads at a time.

My buddy got hooked up with a guy who works at the warehouse.

spark3542 · #60 06-28-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARINUTS

WOW! No modifications at all? no heaters? do you use the block heater? What about in the winter?

No mods. Cars are factory original. Temps in MA get down to single digits in winter. Then I bump the RUG to about 15%. Block heaters in the winter.

Don't fear your engine.

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