Runninng on WVO question - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

oldsinner111 · #16 05-28-2009, 01:44 PM

Here we go again the alternate fuel wars.
Lets hope these hater's of wvo,never find themselves finacially unable to buy diesel fuel.

Sbean · #17 05-28-2009, 01:45 PM

I suggest more research on other forums where other long-time WVO users share their experience. biodiesel.infopop is one.
Steve

oldsinner111 · #18 05-28-2009, 01:50 PM

Come to my group at Yahoo.We don't care if your rich,poor,diesel fuel nut,or black diesel user.

WD8CDH · #19 05-28-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny

:bzflag:

Why are you calling BS? I have over 30 years of successful experience running WVO. How much do you have?

colincoon · #20 05-28-2009, 04:15 PM

Just wondering, not that I'm being biased because I too run WVO, but is there any place I can see a situation where it was proven that WVO has killed a motor? I'm just wondering, because I see a lot of comments saying that it kills your motor, but haven't read anywhere of someone saying that WVO was the reason for killing a a motor.

Just wondering, I'll continue running WVO and sit back silently =]

JEBalles · #21 05-28-2009, 04:57 PM

I agree, I also have not read of WVO being the sole destroyer of an engine. I have read of damaging effects, but mostly just long term. The viscosity tests are probably oil-specific. I wouldn't be surprised if even my two-tank somehow damaging my engine, but I just figure that these engines weren't designed to run on this fuel, so they will react differently to it than mineral diesel. I will accept any damaging effects. I suppose it's really a matter of what information you choose to trust and/or the amount of damage to your engine you willing to tolerate. Do lots of research.

JEBalles · #22 05-28-2009, 04:57 PM

I do enjoy that bs flag, by the way.

colincoon · #23 05-28-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEBalles

I agree, I also have not read of WVO being the sole destroyer of an engine. I have read of damaging effects, but mostly just long term. The viscosity tests are probably oil-specific. I wouldn't be surprised if even my two-tank somehow damaging my engine, but I just figure that these engines weren't designed to run on this fuel, so they will react differently to it than mineral diesel. I will accept any damaging effects. I suppose it's really a matter of what information you choose to trust and/or the amount of damage to your engine you willing to tolerate. Do lots of research.

Right, I've read of a lot of this stuff but have never ever seen it. And hey if it kills Norm's engine, then fine that gives me an excuse to put a turbo in!

Honestly I just want to see some actual proof.

shotwell · #24 05-28-2009, 05:41 PM

I've installed Greasecar two tank systems in quite a few diesel vehicles...two being MB 123s and one 115. As long as you get good filtered and water separated WVO, don't switch over to WVO until it's hot, and perform the proper purge procedure, you're not likely to have any problems. The 220D I had clocked well over 100k on WVO...it's still running somewhere in Seattle. I think people running the wrong type of oil (or not changing the oil at all) is a greater problem in these engines than WVO contamination.

marybeth · #25 05-28-2009, 06:40 PM

Using Unmodified Vegetable Oils as a Diesel Fuel Extender –
A Literature Review
By
Sam Jones and Charles L. Peterson
Graduate Research Assistant and Professor and Interim Head
Department of Biological and Agricultural Engineering

University of Idaho, Moscow, Idaho 83843

...long-term engine test results showed that
durability problems were encountered with vegetable oils because of carbon buildup and
lubricating oil contamination. Thus, it was concluded that vegetable oils must either be
chemically altered or blended with diesel fuel to prevent premature engine failure.
Studies involving the use of raw vegetable oils as a replacement fuel for diesel
fuel indicate that a diesel engine can be successfully fuel with 100% vegetable oil on a
short-term basis. However, long-term engine durability studies show that fueling diesel
engines with 100% vegetable oil causes engine failure due to engine oil contamination,
stuck piston rings, and excessive carbon build-up on internal engine components.

Therefore 100% unmodified vegetable oils are not reasonable diesel fuel replacements...

This study was a compulation of many other studies. Basic conculsion was that "unmodifed" vegtable oil resuled in premature engine failure in blends exceeding 10-20% (In fact many tests were stopped part way due to premature engine failure)

Now "modified" or heated Veggie is a entirely diferent area/study. With "proper" (key word PROPER) modification little to no damage was done to Diesel engines. There was a increase needed in maintenance tasks (example motor oil & fuel filter change frequency) -What kills the mighty Benz diesel is :
A) Water in Veggie
B) Cold Veggie/Cold Engine
C)Cold Veggie/Hot engine
D)Hot Veggie/Cold Engine

Excess water in the veggie resulted in pitting, rusting and other peformance damage. Anything other then hot veggie/hot engine resulted in coking, carbon build-up, loss of lunrication etc..-same issues as with unmodified veggie oil. Exceptions seemed to be with autos modified with Elsbett configurations.

My local Indy MB mechanic has seen a significant number of MB's limp in with damage byond Cost repair due to running "straight" veggie/blends or poor conversions with inadquate heating.

I run on WVO (8 years), as does my son & his mothers MBs(until she got a hybrid)

theshadyguy · #26 05-28-2009, 07:24 PM

My wife works on research projects for schools like Pepperdine and UCLA, and that does not seem like a very good abstract (is that even an abstract or is it an excerpt). Where is the publication information? I understand that by using VO in my car, it's an experiment. I think most people that do it understand that, especially those that make it here to post. Don't experiment with something you can't afford to lose would be my advice.

My 300SD was $950. I've had it for over a year and run a blend of just under 50% in the summer (soCal summer ends early December) and I just use Dino in the winter. I use a vegtherm and my injection line heaters and it works. It runs better than when I bought it, but that has nothing to do with the fuel.

Take everyone's opnion with a grain of salt, even mine!

Edited to Add:
I noticed that was a lit review. Therefore, if you pick the right lit to review, you can have extremely varied conclusions. Give us the publication info of the research papers reviewed at the very least...

marybeth · #27 05-28-2009, 08:06 PM

The study was a multi page thing that compared a other studies/tests/trails-so I just posted a quick excerpt. For some reson I am unable to post the PDF-so here are some links if you wish bedtime reading:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/idahovegoilslitreview.pdf
http://www.poel-tec.com/english/vegetable_oils_diesel.php

From my reading of industry-university-goverment info/studies, experience and personal obervations-you may run on WVO-but (big BUT)-the conversion has to be proper no matter if an Elsbett system or heated two tank system.

spark3542 · #28 05-29-2009, 09:28 AM

My own alternative fuel experiments. First hand info, and nothing more:

Vehicle: 1983 300SD
Purchased: 9/2006
Miles at purchase: 242k
Fuel used since purchase: 8k on homemade BD, 31k on WVO/RUG blend
Miles since purchase: 39k
Mods to the car: None
Current status: Running fine, currently very few miles being put on it. It was DD for over a year, but subsequent purchases hijacked it's DD status.

Vehicle: 1997 E300
Purchased: 11/2007
Miles at Purchase: 162k
Fuel used since purchase: 30k on WVO/RUG blend, 10k on mixture of BD/WVO blend
Miles since purchase: 42k
Mods to the car: None
Current status: Currently DD, I put about 28k annual miles. Extended crank times appeared in Feb on WVO/RUG, began using more BD in the blend, and less RUG. On WVO/RUG, needed to change the spin-on fuel filter about every 500 miles. Increasing the BD in the blend increases the time between fuel filter changes.

Vehicle: 1997 E300
Purchased: 10/2008
Miles at Purchase: 166k
Fuel used since purchase: Homemade BD only
Miles since purchase: 3k
Mods to the car: None
Current status: Wife's car. Drives it when number of kids being transported does not merit a minivan.

All my WVO gets filtered to 5 micron, and only "good" visual WVO is used. Questionable WVO gets dumped into the BD processor.

a2t · #29 05-29-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79Mercy

DON'T USE WVO, USE BIODIESEL!!!!!!

WVO will ruin your motor whether or not you use a single or double tank conversion.

Biodiesel is good for the enviroment and good for your engine.

has there ever been any conclusive studies regarding the emissions of d2 compared to wvo and bio-d?

After running 40k on wvo, the engine runs as it did before wvo. Im not concerned about engine reliability with my fryrbrid kit whatsoever. The wheels will fall off this car LONG before the engine fails.

My only real concern here is emissions. I remember seeing somewhere that bio-d was much worse for environment in certain categories, and wvo while better in some was also worse in others. Carcinogenic emissions was the problem. Cant remember for sure though. Not as if breathing D2 exhaust wont kill you, but I *thought* that wvo exhaust was magnitudes worse. Which would explain the horrid exhaust smell…

ah-kay · #30 05-29-2009, 11:42 AM

Factual emission report done by a private organization, not an University as such. It seems to be very scientific and detailed, though one has to take it with an open mind. Personally I think burning WVO is at least 'carbon neutral'. The CO2 released is what is captured by the plant to make the veggie oil not so long ago. Burning D2 releases CO2 which is captured by the plant millions and millions years ago.

http://www.buffalobiodiesel.org/svo_emissions.pdf