Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion > Alternative Fuels

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-27-2009, 01:51 AM
GWNorris3rd's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Appalachia of California-Fresno
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian White View Post
if there was any oil left in the cyl wouldnt it spray out the injector holes if turned over with the starter? (with injectors removed of course). Why would i pull the glow plugs? Isnt the inj's good enough?
When I did mine I put about 1 ounce of MMO in each cylinder and let it set for 24 hours, turned it over with starter for about 1 second then put another ounce of MMO in each cylinder and let it set for 48 hours. Crank over the engine with the starter before putting the injectors back in to flush out any excise MMO, but the MMO should soften carbon, also remember to use new crush washers.
MMO made a believer out of me... when I bought my car the PO used WVO for about 20,000 and the WVO probably wasn't very clean.

__________________
'03 E320 Sport. Bril Silv/Gray, Active vent, heated, Active Bi-Xenon, 17” whls, Wht gauges, Blk birdseye, Airmatic, and Pano roof.
'83 300D "Katherine" Anthracite Grey/Java 151,000 miles Blown Engine RIP - rust free car - SOLD


Mein Auto ist umweltfreundlich!

(Oo{=|=}oO)
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-27-2009, 02:49 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,042
When I did the Marvel Mystery Oil treatment on my Volvo I tried to put 1/4 cup through the Glow Plug Holes (depending on the Piston Position some drained out). Soaked a Week turned the engine over and repeated the above for 3 more days.
I do not think teaspoons or tablespoons full would be enough to do the job.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-27-2009, 02:39 PM
Ian White's Avatar
machinemanjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 728
I used 1 quart between all five cylinders. I will turn it over slowly tonight by hand.
__________________
Regards,
Ian White

1995 E300 Diesel w124 OM606
2014 E550 w212 M278 biturbo

2001 BMW 740i E38 M62 (past)
1981 300SD w126 OM617 (past)
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-27-2009, 03:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
I believe the miracle mystery oil is a slow solvent. Impatience might be the greatest enemy. The first periodically topped up soak should be at least a week. Block heater really helps. You do not want to loosen the rings enough just to start. This heater of course as there is virtually no chemical action under 70 degrees. As you increase the temperature the activity speeds up probably exponentially.

You want to clean most the gum out as well. Running with some leftover gum in the lands does not get rid of it. The residue just bakes in again.. Reducing what additional compression might be available. Or the freedom of the oil rings a little. The residue does flow downward towards those oil rings when the marvel oil dissolves it by gravity. We also see the largest effect of the vegatable oil on the compression rings. This does not mean some may not have impacted the oil rings to a lesser degree as well.

The only new information to me that has come to light from your experiences so far. Vegatable oil gum or residue seems to continue hardening and drying out with a sitting engine. One other poster indicated this and it makes some sense in my opinion.

Simply based on the fact there is no way that engine could have been running with such low compression numbers. So those compression numbers did not exist when active use of the engine was curtailed. No doubt they already had started down though. This all hinges on the bores not being scored and it was not a case of the temper heated out of the compression rings of course.

I normally am against oil additives. Miracle mystery oil has claimed that a quart in the base oil once you get the car running has been shown to be very benificial in your type of situation. I would seriously consider it.

Also there was a poster on your thread with heavy blowby after freeing up enough to run. These engines do not seem to have general oil ring problems, Most seem to wear out their compression rings or bores first.

Unless he has broken oil rings in there I would start adding a quart of the mystery oil to the base oil of that car. With every oil change until the blowby reduces. It should as the oil rings improve their scraping action. The oil rings just might be still bound up a little and the normal base oil alone is not going to free them.

I think his bores are still in good shape as he quotes the car starts very easily in cold weather. My thinking is the well known fact that if the oil rings are inefective a certain abnormal amount of oil reaches the combustion chamber. If the compression rings are basically floating on an excess amount of oil. When combustion occurs some blows the oil film away and escapes to the lower part of the engine. Possible?

Now I will totally bore people with one of my ideals for consideration. Take a few samples of vegatable oil. Heat and cook them till it semi or totally solidified. People that regularily burn vegatable oil perhaps should do this. No pun intended. The knowledge may be useful for an occasional tune up of their engines.

Best done outside on a camp stove. Otherwise your better half may deal with you in some unpleasant fashion as there might be smoke. Test one solvent on each sample to establish what is the fastest one.

I suspect laquer thinner may be the best but just do not know. I use this as my favorite general solvent for many things. Reasonable in price for a five gallon can and it lasts quite awhile. For cleaning it also dries in seconds and cuts petroleum products extremely fast. Caution advised though as it is quite flameable.

One thing against laquer thinner might or might not be it's very thin viscosity. Also because of it's tendency to rapidly evaporate a fair quantity would have to be injected. Or the escape routes of vapours sealed off. One sample should be done with the miracle mystery oil as a benchmark as we are already somewhat more aware of it..

The most interesting one may be whatever product that gentleman used to bring an engine back with no basic compression in five hours. Some type of engine restore I believe.

I have previous to being on this forum also heard of brake fluid so it should be tried as well. I think It was refferenced years ago for rust bound rings though. My memory does not retain everything or if there I cannot source it all the time. I must be mentaly challenged to some degree.

Last edited by barry123400; 08-27-2009 at 04:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-27-2009, 04:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 690
Diesel Purge.

That's part of the reason I suggested using dp as the fuel for trying to start the car. It will dissolve the carbon. Squirt a little in (when cranking the engine) let it soak a while. Squirt a little more in while working whatever is in there (maybe in the form of a vapor which will condense on the cylinder walls/piston) by moving the piston. It may take a couple days of doing this, but it has worked like a charm for me on at least three cars that have been sitting. One - that runs great today - sat for four years.

I suspect the valve seats may rust slightly, as well, precluding complete valve closure, hence reducing compression further???

Jay.
__________________
On the road, currently:
'83 300D (German spec.) 168k mi. - - Wolfgang (tucked snugly away for the winter!)
'87 300D 375k mi. - finally went over to "The Dark Side"
'87 300TD 225k mi.
Cannondale 66cm CAAD5 w/Campy/Jamis Aurora
Hujsak Custom Fixie/Landshark Track Shark Custom/Ahearne Custom 29'er
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
[QUOTE=babyjames;2280072

I suspect the valve seats may rust slightly, as well, precluding complete valve closure, hence reducing compression further???

Jay.[/QUOTE]

Bound to be some oxidation of the seats and valve faces on those valves that remained open unused long term. Iron oxide or rust is pretty soft though so it probaly pounds off fast. A tremendious amount of corrosion would be another matter. Perhaps sticking valves if the upper valve stems seriously oxidised.

If any previous carbon had built up over time it might soften with time and moisture as well. It too might pound off.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-27-2009, 09:23 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian White View Post
When i pulled the old injectors out i saw the base that seats next to the heat shield had a thin layer of engine oil on it. Seems to me that could indicate either that the rings are gone, lost tension, or are stuck. Am i correct in assuming this?

Thanks!
I think it would be hard to tell motor oil from diesel fuel in a case like that.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:31 AM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,042
I would not run MM Oil mixed with Multi Viscosity Oils except for a short distance to change it. The reason is that eh MM Oil might do something to the chemical makeup of that part that makes the Oil Multi Viscosity.

With single Viscosity Oil like 30wt; adding MM Oil to the crankcase would decrease the Viscosity some but otherwise would not change it much.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-28-2009, 08:23 PM
Ian White's Avatar
machinemanjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 728
Sitting for 72 hours now, only 4 days left. I am working on other parts of the car now so its "break" hasnt been worse for wear...

Oh well...
__________________
Regards,
Ian White

1995 E300 Diesel w124 OM606
2014 E550 w212 M278 biturbo

2001 BMW 740i E38 M62 (past)
1981 300SD w126 OM617 (past)
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Ian White's Avatar
machinemanjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 728
I have time today to "waste" haha. Do you think I should roll the engine over and get the mmo out and throw the injectors back in and try to fire her up or just wait the general consensus of a week?

Thanks!
__________________
Regards,
Ian White

1995 E300 Diesel w124 OM606
2014 E550 w212 M278 biturbo

2001 BMW 740i E38 M62 (past)
1981 300SD w126 OM617 (past)
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:02 PM
Registered Hack
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,642
Did you use a block heater?....go for it


by using the GP holes, you will remove more liquid from the cylinders. After you button up, turn at least a few times by hand to ensure you don't bend any rods etc..
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:03 PM
Registered Hack
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,642
ps - I read that MMO is just mineral spirits and 30 weight oil with some fragrance.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:51 PM
Ian White's Avatar
machinemanjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 728
Nope my car didnt have a wiring harness from the block heater, just the prongs for the missing plug. So i couldnt use one.
__________________
Regards,
Ian White

1995 E300 Diesel w124 OM606
2014 E550 w212 M278 biturbo

2001 BMW 740i E38 M62 (past)
1981 300SD w126 OM617 (past)
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 09-07-2009, 09:42 PM
Ian White's Avatar
machinemanjr
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Spokane, Washington
Posts: 728
UPDATE------ GOOD AND BAD NEWS

Okay got the engine going, I had some bad injectors, and had the shutoff valve hooked up wrong and a collapsed inlet filter. So today I got the engine running and it ran great, 3 bar oil pressure, except, once it started warming up it was knocking hard, so I cracked each line to see if it would stop and I cracked #2 and no change in tone. I listened with an automotive stethoscope and heard that bad noise around #2, So I checked compression on cylinder #2 it has 25 psi compression So im thinking i have a broken piston now. Cylinder 1 has 225 psi now, The engine got to 80 degrees Celsius, so Im thinking the engine is gonna get a new piston in hole #2. . I know the engine was only running on 4 cylinders because it was rocking terrible. Could this be anything other than a broken piston which creates this low low compression and a terrible knocking????


Thanks in advance...
__________________
Regards,
Ian White

1995 E300 Diesel w124 OM606
2014 E550 w212 M278 biturbo

2001 BMW 740i E38 M62 (past)
1981 300SD w126 OM617 (past)
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 09-08-2009, 02:15 AM
Registered Hack
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,642
If its really 25 psi..
you need to truly verify the mechanical failure before you pee in your bed.

otherwise, run it good and hard and try to loosen up those rings or soak them again. Do some searching on H2O injection on Goog*e, it might be an option. Although Whunter advises against it.

If it was a 'broken' piston, there would be much more than just 'knocking'... it would be metallic clanking and you immediately turn off the engine.

__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page