I started the original post HERE Please help me understand the fuel system. I have a 300te ca edition with a mass airflow sensor.

First, the year is usually helpful when you're asking questions of any nature about your car.

A TE would be the M103 engine car through '93 right? I believe that you have no MAF sensor, only an airflow-sensor that lifts and mechanically varies fuel flow. That lift is varied somewhat (and thus the fuel mixture) by counterpressure on the metering pin, which is controlled via the computer and a frequency-valve on the side of the (CIS-E or KE-Jetronic) fuel distributor.

The closed-loop system does exist on this system with a O2-sensor on the cat, and varying the resistance in the wire from that O2 sensor will change the mixture slightly.

Beyond that, note that hydrogen production takes electricity, which is produced by the engine burning gasoline to spin the alternator, and unless you've found a way to break the established laws of physics/thermodynamics you will find that there is less energy produced from your on-board hydrogen plant than it consumes to produce that hydrogen, ... but the internet legends live on. This has been discussed extensively here, do some searches and you will find some useful ways to spend your time other than spending time and money doing what others have done before you, many of whom claim that it works in spite of a century of scientific discovery, ... if you want to see it badly enough, you will.

Where'd I put that flame suit again?

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

This one predates the Internet by decades. I recall it from my youth, and its proponents were just as adamant that it should work, even though they could not state any physical principal under which it should.

I've heard some very outstanding mileage claims. 40MPG, PFFFT! I've heard 100MPG many times, and even 200MPG a time or two. But I attribute it ALL to measurement error.

Hydrogen production from electricity is very inefficient. End of story.

__________________
1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

The claim goes something like this:

You're not getting power by the mere introduction of hydrogen fuel. The hydrogen in the mix makes the rest of the fuel charge burn so much more efficiently that it produces more power than you lose at the alternator, by a rather large factor.

However, nobody ever bothers to tell you just why you should expect to get a more efficient burn with the introduction of a very small bit of hydrogen (very small when compared to the gasoline being introduced). They just say that it does, and they get buyers for their products. Or they get believers who are not buyers, who make their own equipment. I cannot tell which camp the OP is in.

Too bad "big oil" is paying the automakers to not incorporate this technology so that they will continue to sell us lots of gasoline, ...

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

I forgot about that gem, which always accompanies the claims. For a lot of people, this is all you need to say to lend legitimacy to the claims.

Please stick on the subject of how the fuel systems work wil lit let me lean out or does the computer have warnings like the obd 2 computer?
Sorry my te is a 91

And if you havent tried it before you have no room for comments.

Please explain fuel O and when you adjust the P meter flap y 50%

If you believe this BS, I have slightly used bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. I'll cut you a great deal.


LOL

I got to goto work but I will be using abou t 2 volts from the alternator.
Whats the difference between a air flow sensor and mass cause my 86 doesnt have that sensor.

One thing that I've always wondered about these things: Do they cause hydrogen embrittlement of iron or steel parts? It could be that such a device will not only not help you save fuel, but may actually damage your engine.

If all you want to do is reduce the fuel injected, you could lower your line pressure. But the thought that the engine manufacturer artificially doubles the needed fuel is an interesting one. Not true in the least; just interesting.

Hydrogen embrittle is caused by excess hydrogen ions in the plating process. The hydrogen ions are present because the plating solutions are acidic. Elemental hydrogen poses no such threat.

A little snippy for someone asking for help.

You can't use 2volts from the alternator, it puts out a nominal 13.4volts.

To lean the mixture in a CIS system, you raise the fuel pressure to the fuel distributor which increases the counterpressure on the air-flow meter. Yours is the CIS-E, which varies the pressure with a small valve on the side of the fuel distributor via the signal from the ECU.

Whether you can lean it by varying the voltage returning from the O2 sensor is what you probably need to know, I don't know without looking it up, someone else might.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

I assume the O2 sensor will detect the lean condition and try to add fuel. I don't know the way around that.

I am curious what method you use to calculate MPG and verify your results.

__________________
1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

If you are going to go to all this effort, why not try something that actually works like megasquirt. With a wide band O2 sensor you can dial in exacly the AFR you desire at every engine load and RPM with full authority over spark advance and warm up enrichment. It's a great learning experience and you'll end up with a car that has more power and better fuel economy. I'm enjoying 30+ mpg in my MS powered 190e automatic. CIS be damned.