A Modest Proposal WVO/Biodiesel forum interest - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

strelnik · #1 01-05-2011, 11:07 AM

No, this is not Daniel DeFoe's comic proposal to resolve problems of starving children in Ireland by bringing them to England and eating them, this is something more serious.

There are many smart guys I know who brew biodiesel, but because there's no biodiesel forum around here, they don't spend time on the Peach Parts forum, even though most of them are MB owners!!!

I'd like to get support to change that.

Some of these guys have developed other new solvents and others discovered different things in the course of their " brewing "

One of the most successful biodiesel producers lives fairly close to whunter and I bet he doesn't know it!

These guys hide well.

I am thinking of setting aside a small corner of the enclave/mancave to brew bio.

I would be happy to sell the excess to people at cost. I'm not planning to become a biodiesel magnate.

So...reactions? Regional chapters? Stickies on what's good and bad in the bio-d market? current prices in regions? Local suppliers across America?

Your thoughts please.

tarnbarn · #2 01-05-2011, 11:15 AM

(cough cough)... that's be Jonathan Swift, not defoe...

Rooster300SD · #3 01-05-2011, 11:30 AM

Strelink,
If I were closer, I'd definitely be interested.

Yeah, Swift wrote A Modest Proposal, Defoe wrote the one about
the guy stranded on an island who ended up making a palm tree car
and biodiesel out of coconuts with his Man Friday......no, wait....I think that's Gilligan and the Professor.......

strelnik · #4 01-05-2011, 01:23 PM

There are many smart guys I know who brew biodiesel, but because there's no biodiesel forum around here, they don't spend time on the Peach Parts forum, even though most of them are MB owners!!!

I'd like to get support to change that.

Some of these guys have developed other new solvents and others discovered different things in the course of their " brewing "

One of the most successful biodiesel producers lives fairly close to whunter and I bet he doesn't know it!

These guys hide well.

I am thinking of setting aside a small corner of the enclave/mancave to brew bio.

I would be happy to sell the excess to people at cost. I'm not planning to become a biodiesel magnate.

So...reactions? Regional chapters? Stickies on what's good and bad in the bio-d market? current prices in regions? Local suppliers across America?

Your thoughts please.

John Schroader · #5 01-05-2011, 01:40 PM

I am thinking of setting aside a small corner of the enclave/mancave to brew bio.

I would be happy to sell the excess to people at cost. I'm not planning to become a biodiesel magnate.

So...reactions? Regional chapters? Stickies on what's good and bad in the bio-d market? current prices in regions? Local suppliers across America?

Your thoughts please.[/QUOTE]

A couple of thoughts on this matter might be worthy of consideration. First -----different states view brewing bio differently, but my experience is that it is best to keep a low profile. My home state (KY) would require me to register as a fuel producer, be bonded, inspected, etc.
Secondly-----most states want their fair share of any highway fuel in the form of taxes. I've heard of folks selling bio under the canopy of 'home heating fuel' but I'm not sure how well that works.
That said, I would like to make bio and sell it to several friends- good for them and a little pocket change for me, but if I do then I would either be a lawbreaker or have to play in the big league. And that's not what I want to do.

dagObx · #6 01-05-2011, 04:06 PM

I'd be interested in some sort of bio-learning, chat, etc. forum. I can't make it now since I'm in a rented house with no outbuildings, but when I move I will definitely be making bio.

There's a guy out here that's making it "under the radar". He has a grading company & runs all his diesel equipment off of it. He has quite the bio operation in his equipment building & has promised to show me the ropes. His bio looks as good as anything I have seen commercially; he's a stickler for doing it right. He even gives me a little of it from time to time.

Yeah, I'm interested!

Count me in...

ForcedInduction · #7 01-05-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

but because there's no biodiesel forum around here, they don't spend time on the Peach Parts forum

For good reason. Biodiesel is a huge can of legal worms. "Biodiesel" to some people = WVO/SVO, which is clearly illegal. Not to mention there are many people against home brewing because of the ease of violating tax and insurance laws as well as safety regulations (putting their neighbors lives at risk from fire and chemical poisoning). An example of one such person stealing from the government and knowingly operating illegally is given in the bottom quote.

These are the kind of people that give BioDiesel a bad reputation and do far more to hold it back than advance its use.

Quote:

These guys hide well.

Given the above, you can understand why they hide. The honest people don't hide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Schroader

My home state (KY) would require me to register as a fuel producer, be bonded, inspected, etc.

retmil46 · #8 01-05-2011, 06:41 PM

Many states allow you to make up to XX number of gallons per year for YOUR OWN USE with little or no hassle, but it would be a whole 'nother can of worms when it came to selling it to others.

dieseldan44 · #9 01-05-2011, 07:47 PM

strelnik,

I have produced ~1000gals of biodiesel. I fabricated a 55 gallon Graham Laming type distillation processor in the summer of 2008 (timely). It made a lot of ASTM spec biodiesel from WVO.

I no longer use it: I run a two tank WVO system instead. The two tank rig is so so so much better in so many ways.

Producing biodiesel from WVO as a 'way of life' is really time consuming, expensive and above all, dangerous.

Making biodiesel is tantalizingly easy. You can do it in a mason jar in 20 minutes. Making *quality*, oxidatively stable, ASTM spec fuel at home in 50 gallon batches is really, really difficult.

I could write a paper on why it's a bad idea based on my own experiences and those of many others.

I dont think as many people are doing it as you think - and those who say they are successful may be not doing as good of a job as they think or may be ignoring safety precautions.

Sorry to be a debbie downer about it, but as I said, Ive been there, done that, and have the methanol vapor detector :-)

dd

thayer · #10 01-05-2011, 08:32 PM

I have been flirting with alternative fuels ever since I bought my 617. Never actually did it until tonight. I was talking to a friend of mine who I wrench with about it, and he poured my waste motor oil in my tank without specific direction from me. I laughed...I figure it will be ok. I did plug the block heater in tonight just to be safe.

There was a NC government official who was burning straight wvo in his VW and he pretty much nipped in the bud that for NC, its cool to burn whatever you want in your diesel. I have never been stopped and dipped. I know vstech has, but that was in charlotte.

My cousin got stopped and dipped, his farm truck had farm diesel in it and he got a ticket. If you dip a two tank system, you get whatever is in the tank, not the trunk.

Do it, and don't advertise. Once you save about 500$ in fuel, you're golden, even if you blow the engine (you can get a 617 at the pullapart for about 500$)

The diesels don't run at their tip top on anything but diesel, but they will get you there on a ton of different fuel. Dale got home on lawnmower gas once.

vstech · #11 01-05-2011, 10:07 PM

you can get a 617 at the pullapart for about 100... last I checked.
we have a wvo/bio sticky at the top of the forum... how hard would it be to add in a wvo subforum like the performance section?

WDBCB20 · #12 01-05-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thayer

The diesels don't run at their tip top on anything but diesel, but they will get you there on a ton of different fuel. Dale got home on lawnmower gas once.

Found no discernible difference in startability or performance between straight diesel and 90%WVO 10% Diesel blend.

bgiovan · #13 01-05-2011, 10:59 PM

One thing I've found is the level of misinformation and communicating that misinformation as fact is astounding. That's why people get scared of biodiesel. Forced, the IRS and the State will gladly take you filing quarterly returns to pay your fair share of road tax. But may I ask, how is the Prius driver similarly taxed? How about the Volt driver. Oh, never mind. (hint: we actually subsidize them $7,500 a copy to not pay road taxes)

I live near whunter and produce bio for myself and an organic farm co-op that we belong to. Properly made with all safety and environmental concerns addressed (and there ain't that many) this is really not a big deal at all.

My experience is that 90+% of the mechanics out there think people that put anything but government approved petro diesel in their tanks are law-breaking morons who deserve the firing squad. No matter what you say to them it falls on deaf ears. If your battery dies or your power steering pump goes it's because you run biodiesel and you are a idiot. I prefer to not support Chavez, Ahmedinejad and the other dooshbags out there who gladly take our money and use it to kill us.

scottmcphee · #14 01-05-2011, 11:27 PM

Remember the laws on acceptable road fuels vary by region. While straight SVO is illegal in England, it is perfectly legal (unregulated) here in Alberta. Some retailers are mixing bio-d into their pumps and advertise it as an enviro feature. You can buy 100% bio-d in Germany, on the autobahn. You can fill up your BMW on 100% hydrogen in Reykjavic, Iceland, on HWY 41 exiting town. You can plug in your Nissan Leaf for free at most parking lots around here. I digress...

Just remember, the internet is a region-free forum. It speaks to the world. Your local laws are your concern to go figure out before venturing forth. But maybe it would be useful to have a local laws thread, and post your findings there? Decide for yourself if you want go with or against them.

Also remember this is not a private forum. Many people make the assumption of what gets said here goes unseen, and remains underground. You can't hide from the law here, cops read these forums too. If you post here, your local enforcement agencies may very well use it as evidence against you if you're found to be contravening local laws. Google makes it very easy to find stuff posted by you, kept forever, on the internet in Google's cache.

bgiovan · #15 01-05-2011, 11:35 PM

Couldn't agree more Scott. Do check your local laws. Some are totally fine, some think you are running a meth lab. File and pay your quarterly taxes, comply with enviromnental laws and you should be fine. Me, this is personal (I drive less than 5 miles each way to work - one reason I do not run WVO) and farm use, don't sell to anyone so if they want to come after me I guess go ahead. Given the massive decrease in personal liberty in this country it's just a matter of time before we all are before the SS for doing something that pissed someone off.