Hello all, first time poster here.

I am currently trying to decide whether I should convert my '00 Jetta TDI to WVO, buy an '84 300 TD that is already equipped with a Greasecar kit, or buy an '87 300 TD to convert.

I really want a wagon to convert, and my Jetta is a sedan.

The '84 300 TD has some little issues, rusty exhaust, rear brake line needs replaced, front brake rotors, fan belts, rear differential is leaking, ball joint, oil pan gasket leak, A/C compressor leak, rear hatch inside handle broken (can't open from inside), rear windshield wiper doesn't work, the auto trans has a hard shift sometimes, owner's mechanic said it should be looked into but didn't say it needed immediate fix. The body looks ok, a few rust spots, and 90K miles on the engine. Has the Greasecar kit already installed.

The '87 300 TD needs to have the central lock vacuum fixed, the radio doesn't work (no biggy), and has 166K miles on it. I think it needs to have a few small spots fixed.

My Jetta has 213K miles on it, suspension is good, have an ABS light on sporadically, and I have a coolant leak to track down. I am taking it in for diagnosis to see how much work needs to be done to make sure coolant system is rock solid, just had transmission serviced, and was going to have timing/water pump/other belts done and also replace injector pump seals and inj ret lines with viton seals/line. I am not going to mess around with converting a car that has coolant system issues. I am worried about the 01M auto trans as well...from everything I've read those VW 01M transmissions always fail at some point.

I know that some people recommend making sure the timing is advanced, and they fool around with mods to the temp, etc. Does the M-B engine have similar pitfalls, concerns to be mindful of when running WVO?

This is a dilemma for me...torn between the wagon that I have always wanted and trying to avoid getting into a huge project. The cost of a WVO kit is 1500-2000 and then time to install. Professional installation is 1500.

Thanks for all advice and suggestions that you have for me.

Does anyone have inputs for me...which would you go with

Where are you located? That makes a big difference in the WVO equation. A kit in the north has to look very different than a kit in the South to be effective.

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

No car is ever a good candidate for WVO conversion... That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Don, I respect your opinion and everyone is entitled to one. WVO has major pitfalls and it's not for everyone. Done wrong, it can trash an engine in short order.

But, for those who have done their research, and are willing to put in the effort in a well designed 2-tank conversion and filtering system, WVO is a viable long term fuel in 617's and other diesel cars.

I have met many people first hand with 100k+ WVO miles on diesels much newer (and more sensitive) than W123s. Mostly post-2000 Ford PSD's. I also know PP forum members with over 100k on WVO on 617s. I have 25k myself.

I am hoping we can change the general theme of 'WVO is always bad' to 'WVO is bad unless you are really careful and know what you're doing'.

Respectfully,
dd

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

Oh yeah, I am in Baltimore.

I want to also specify that I want to convert with a two tank WVO system for my daily commute, which is 30 miles each way. I want to use the WVO when the engine is at temp, and while I am NOT in stop and go traffic.

A big downfall for WVO in a MB wagons is the place for a second tank is limited. You can put a tank in the spare tire well or in the back sitting on the floor. Both of these mean a fuel tank inside the cabin of the car. Or you can remove the door lock res from underneath and put one there.

In the older MB diesel injection pumps are oil lubricated and are more reliable for running VO than the VW pumps that are fuel lubricated.

__________________

Thanks, I was just thinking about suitable places for the extra tank just wondering if there is space under the hatch somewhere. The spare tire well would be my other choice to keep the hatch free for third row seat, cargo, etc.

My other question...ideally I'll have the second tank for WVO, but to run bio in an older MB, do I need to purchase an engine seal tune up kit? I want to have the WVO tank for clear sailing on the highway and would also like to run B100 during the summer from the main tank. I am having the Greasworks VE/E pump seals and injector return line kit put into my VW next week during timing belt/water pump change. Greaseworks has the kits for M-B as well. Do the M-B lines have the same issues with bio eating them up? To reliably run bio from the main tank, are these viton replacements needed?

Biodiesel will eventually wear through the fuel lines on the MBs as well. The injection pumps on the 61x engines in the 115, 123, and 126 don't have seals that biodiesel will degrade, but the 60x IP's do have delivery valve seals that will start leaking, again, eventually. Biodiesel breaks down rubber slowly. It turns it into a gooey mess, but it takes a while. All the rubber in the fuel system will eventually break down with biodiesel. If you're running B20 however it may never happen or take a really long time. B20 doesn't break down rubber as quickly as B100 will. Justin at Greaseworks is a good friend of mine. I worked with him for a while. He's a good guy. I'd wouldn't by the solid viton personally. He sells viton lined hose called SAE 30-R9. Which you can also find at your local auto parts store. It's much cheaper, and more durable. Viton is pretty soft. I've got 30-R9 hose on my 240D w/ a veg conversion. The injector return lines only come in viton or the stock MB stuff, which people also claim works pretty well with biodiesel use.

As for the tank the spare tire well will work well, but you will have all the weight on one side. The only other option is to remove the vacuum reservoir that is just behind the bumper under the car, and build a custom tank that can mount there. Doing this however results in door locks that will only work when the car is running.

__________________

Caution: I would not do this. If you run a two tank WVO system, you want to run petro-diesel in the main tank.

The reason is that B100 is much, much less oxidatively stable than petro-diesel. When running on WVO, some of your main tank fuel sits up in the secondary (spin-on) fuel filter and 'cooks' from the heat of the hot engine bay. If you are driving for 5 hours on the highway, this B100 is sitting in your filter for 5 hours. This polymerizes the B100 and clogs filters, IPs and causes all sorts of problems.

When you are using WVO, on shutdown you absolutely want to 'wash' your system with good old petrodiesel, which has anti-chelating agents and anti-oxidants added. If you purge with B100, you are purging with fuel that's just been 'cooked' in your spin on filter for however long you've been running WVO.

This effect is amplified in a Ford Powerstroke, which is where Ive seen the problem first hand. On those engines, the main fuel 'bowl' sits right in between the heads on the V8 where it's very hot.

Theres nothing wrong with B100 - if you run it all the time as the only fuel. It's just not a good idea in a two-tank WVO situation.

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

that does make a lot of sense.

why would the weight of a 12 or 13 gallon tank there instead of the spare tire be an issue? is there a concern with the suspension?

A jap diesel or maybe a volvo would be the one to ruin with WVO

not especially, ...if you are talking wagon with a good functioning suspension it won't make too big of a difference.

WVO (like diesel) is about 7lbs/gallon + the weight of the tank itself. the only problem is the spare tire well is at the very rear, and the weight is multiplied. it's like the difference between having someone sit on the rear bumper of a car and sitting in the rear seat. the suspension goes down much more if someone sits on the rear bumper.

spare wheel well tanks can be a bit of a pain since you have to move stuff every time you need to refuel. it tends to be messier unless you have a nozzle hooked right up. but ive seen them done right.

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

How much do the spare wheel/tire/associated tools weigh? Should be pretty close....if not only 20 or so lbs over, right?

Not sure about my wagon plans...I am hoping that the wagon I really want will still be available after tomorrow. Keeping my fingers crossed.

There is another one available, there are a few spots that maybe rusted through including one of the front lift points, and the sunroof doesn't work properly. The engine was replaced with a 300SD engine, and the owner says:
The circuit in the back tail gate is shorted out,
blowing the fuse as soon as you turn the car on,
so the back wiper, squirter, and defogger are not working
at this time. The sunroof won't open, as it seems a linkage
in the mechanism may be broken. It also needs a new socket for
the driver side headlight, as it is intermittently turning off
and on. I've never smoked in the car. The four door locks
work when you lock or unlock the door from the outside with
the key. The rear tail gate lock is a little stiff, sometimes
with the doors and sometimes not. I always use the key to lock
the back if I've had it open.

I've never noticed water getting into the car from the sunroof
or near the jack hole. I keep the sunroof adjusted so that it
is always sealed. I did find a dime size hole next to one of
the jack holes, but I believe this opening is totally separate
from the interior pan on the passenger side floor. The engine
does have about 170K miles. I've not had any of the items that
aren't functioning quoted for repairs. For one of these cars
in top condition, they are asking $5000 to $6000 and up.
I'm figuring it would be around $2000 to correct these things,
so that is where I came up with the price. Any thoughts about the state of this ride, and how much it would cost to get the electrics, sunroof, rust fixed?

From experience I can say that you need to sort out the car's issues completely before introducing the WVO variable.

If you plan on keeping this vehicle for a while and relying on it (~100k+), I would get the best rust free, well taken care of, service records in hand example you can find.

It's worth paying more money for the car to get a well taken car of one. $4k for a wagon in good operating condition with no rust is not unreasonable at all, IMHO.

Any of these cars with 'cosmetic' rust for almost sure has bad rust in other places. You need to really know where to look and actually do the looking pre-purchase. These cars can look fantastic even right up close but can have rusted out floorboards (that look OK because of the undercoating and sound deadender) and holes under battery tray you can stick your arm through.

I say all this having made the mistakes. Car #1 (the 82) had a bad engine - low compression on 2 cylinders - , but is rust free, Car #2 (the 85) has a great engine but had a ton of rust that required a ton of welding to fix. New floor boards, whole chunks of donor cars welded in. i have driven in for 30k and I learned a lot doing the restoration - but i wouldnt want to do it again.

__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car