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  #1  
Old 08-18-2013, 08:39 AM
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BIODIESEL..When????

My question, will biodiesel ever be universally available anywhere?
Did big petro kill biodiesel with bluetech "clean diesel". Can traditional Diesel
be converted to blue?
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  #2  
Old 08-18-2013, 04:33 PM
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I've heard current availability of the bio that gets turned into diesel is simply not enough. There are % biodiesel mandates, but they perversely effect the other markets for oil: Rainforest and stomachs- in 2008-9 when diesel prices spiked and the 10% biodiesel mandates went into the euro market, burma and indonesia bulldozed rainforest to grow jatropha, and poor folks couldn't afford palm oil, a major 2nd & 3rd world fat & protein source.

Better to look to trash to syngas plants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/business/trash-into-gas-efficiently-an-army-test-may-tell.html?ref=business

They can also use cellulose, like paper and switchgrass as a feedstock to make ethanol and diesel.
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  #3  
Old 08-18-2013, 05:59 PM
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When will BioD be available everywhere? When the market demands it or the governments dictate it. Markets won't ever demand it, and governments won't dictate it because there's already too many vehicles out there that it will cause problems in.

As for killing BioD with clean diesel, yes, to some extent. ATSM-spec BioD has more allowed non-combustible contaminates that will plug the particulate filters. It will also dilute the engine oil when used in engines that use post injection to burn off the soot captured in the particulate filter.

As for making a traditional diesel "blue", yes, in theory, add a catOx and a particulate filter to capture all the soot, and a control system for burning off the soot.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:43 PM
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I hear a lot of guys are deleting particulate filters with a high degree of success.
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2013, 09:22 PM
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Yanking out the DPF and reprogramming the computer has great success for lots of guys. They got away with it for a while, but the government cracked down and it's now illegal to manufacture any more from what I know. Most guys with diesel pickups are going from 360hp/6-700lb tq to over 500hp and near 1000lb with just a quick tune, and usually nearly doubling their mileage after doing so.

I'm a Ford guy when I'm not hailing the three pointed star, but Chevy has it right with their post-injection deal from what I've read. The Duramax has a ninth injector that injects the diesel directly downstream into the exhaust so it isn't injected into the engine and then pushed out the valves into the exhaust, causing oil dilution... makes me wonder if it could use some kind of alternative fuel with less ill effects.

The coolest biodiesel source from what I understand is algae. A little reading on it will blow your mind. It solves pretty much all of the issues and negative side effects of using food stock or other agriculture land/resources for fuel and seems like it basically cultivates itself. Maybe that's the problem though, not enough money and monopolizeability (yeah, I just made that one up) for more research to be put into it.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:07 AM
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I don't get the obsession with biodiesel. I'm perfectly content spending $3.70/gal for 53 cetane 100% crude based diesel fuel. I don't have to modify anything, I don't have to worry about swapping out filters or heating the fuel, I just drive the car. Even if it went up to $5 or $6/gal, my cost per mile would basically be inline with the average 300e driver today. Hardly worth worrying about.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:37 AM
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Hmm. Must be nice. We're paying well over $6/gal with all conversions taken into account here. Most diesels on the road are getting below 20 mpg, so that adds up. German diesels are in a small minority in NA.

There's lots of reasons why. Homebrew bio usually works out to around $1/gal from what I know, minus time invested. WVO is even cheaper - just time and filtering. For people who drive a lot or are just looking to save where they can - it makes a lot of sense. Not too different a mentality than doing DIY repairs.

Plus there's that whole thing where you're more self sufficient and burning a renewable resource made from organic matter... instead of buying into that whole nasty petroleum industry and all the nasty evil that comes with it.
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2013, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
I don't get the obsession with biodiesel. I'm perfectly content spending $3.70/gal for 53 cetane 100% crude based diesel fuel. I don't have to modify anything, I don't have to worry about swapping out filters or heating the fuel, I just drive the car. Even if it went up to $5 or $6/gal, my cost per mile would basically be inline with the average 300e driver today. Hardly worth worrying about.
Emissions would be the main reason for Biodiesel to become widely available.
The price of diesel is due to the enormous amount exported. To make it happen the Gov should stop ethanol subsidies and put the money into alge conversion.
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GJEMD View Post
Emissions would be the main reason for Biodiesel to become widely available.
The price of diesel is due to the enormous amount exported. To make it happen the Gov should stop ethanol subsidies and put the money into alge conversion.
I'm with you on ending ethanol subsidies but I would rather the government stay out of the market all together. I could care less how much diesel we export. If bio diesel becomes a viable option it should do so on its own merits. I see Gdiesel or GTL becoming economically viable long before biodiesel.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
I don't get the obsession with biodiesel. I'm perfectly content spending $3.70/gal for 53 cetane 100% crude based diesel fuel. I don't have to modify anything, I don't have to worry about swapping out filters or heating the fuel, I just drive the car. Even if it went up to $5 or $6/gal, my cost per mile would basically be inline with the average 300e driver today. Hardly worth worrying about.
For me it's higher lubricity, higher cetane (don't know where you're getting 53 cetane petrodiesel, but the stuff around here meets the standard 40), and not sending as much of my money to countries populated by people who hate me and want to kill me. I generally run ASTM spec B20 from a commercial producer in Minden, NV. There's also the issues of carbon and particulate emissions, which don't concern me as much, but they are important to some people.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
For me it's higher lubricity, higher cetane (don't know where you're getting 53 cetane petrodiesel, but the stuff around here meets the standard 40), and not sending as much of my money to countries populated by people who hate me and want to kill me. I generally run ASTM spec B20 from a commercial producer in Minden, NV. There's also the issues of carbon and particulate emissions, which don't concern me as much, but they are important to some people.
CARB regulation requires minimum 53 cetane.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/fuels/dieselspecs.pdf

In practice the average fuel sold in the state is 55.8 cetane.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/20130731arbwaterboardjointstatementrd.pdfhttp://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/20130731arbwaterboardjointstatementrd.pdf

I use 1 OZ/gal of TCW3 for lubricity. It costs about 9 cents per gallon.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-TC-W3-Outboard-2-Cycle-Oil-1-Gallon/16795065

As of late 2011, the US is a net exporter of both refined diesel fuel and crude oil.
U.S. Was Net Oil-Product Exporter for First Time Since 1949 - Bloomberg
Again, I'm not opposed to bio diesel but I wouldn't go out of my way for it nor would I pay a premium for it. With the amount of nat gas this country has, I expect GTL to become far more common than biodiesel in the next few years and it has cetane number 75-80.

Last edited by tjts1; 08-21-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GJEMD View Post
My question, will biodiesel ever be universally available anywhere?
Did big petro kill biodiesel with bluetech "clean diesel". Can traditional Diesel
be converted to blue?
Over the week end on my way back from TN riding the "Tail of the Dragon", I fueled in a gas station with Biodiesel pump. I believe it was in VA close to TN border. So there is a commercial site of it, I know in TX there is.
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:26 PM
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There is a biodiesel pump in Philadelphia at the Shell station on 11th and Vine. It's only B20 but it's very good fuel Since 300D tells me so. At that location, it's usually about $.20 cheaper than full dinosaur diesel in town but still not as cheap as regular dino out on the interstates (not the PA turnpike though) where trucks make up most of the volume and help keep the prices down.
Up in NYC there are three stations with varying grades of bio but I've not fueled up at any of them. I hear good things though.
So, they are becoming slowly more prevalent, but very slowly.

Phil Forrest
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Old 08-25-2013, 03:04 PM
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Found ya Phil - it's Jeromie from the RFF.

When do you bring that 220D home?
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:21 AM
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I'm up too late. It's like Christmas eve for me. The lovely lady comes to her new hom in a few short hours. I'll be posting photos and certainly showing her off in the next week. I also don't know much about her maintenance history so all the fluids are getting chaned, filters are getting changed and she's gonna get a fresh full tank of B20 from the station I mentioned in my post above. I CAN'T WAIT to get this little gem rolling under my control.

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