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  #151  
Old 10-16-2017, 04:21 PM
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nailing, clacking, could mean needing valve adjustment, or injector adjustment, i'm currently troubleshooting that as well in this thread:

post valve adjustment clicking

i'm not on HPR, i ran biodiesel for a bit, and it's no longer available so i'm on petro diesel again.
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1985 w123 300D turbo
nov 2015 - mar 2017 running tri-state biodiesel, commercially made from restaurant waste veggie oil
looking to start a biodiesel buying club in nyc, brooklyn, queens.
just need somewhere to stash a 100+ gallon drum or tank.
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  #152  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:40 PM
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Location: Central CA
Posts: 583
I just returned from a weekend trip on HPR.
364 miles on 12.1 gallons - 30mpg!


Quote:
Originally Posted by allenying View Post
nailing, clacking, could mean needing valve adjustment, or injector adjustment...
I've got a OM603 with brand new INA hydraulic followers (less than 1k on them) and brand-new Greazzer injectors with Bozio nozzles (less than 3k on them).

After an hour on the highway it is extremely quiet, as in hardly-tell-it's-a-diesel quiet. Cold it sounds like a POS clattery death engine anywhere from 1k to 2.5krpm.

I think I'm down to either delivery valve issues (Likely - they leak at the IP, and have bubbles in the return lines) or serious mechanical failure in the engine (unlikely).
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Mechanical Engineer -- I design and make otherwise unavailable car parts.

Garage:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 62k
1998 Saturn SL2, 4 speed auto, 240k - 35 mpg
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 153k - 28.7 mpg
1993 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 8v, 3 sp auto. 134k - 25 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 106k - 28.6 mpg
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  #153  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:38 PM
dieseldiehard's Avatar
Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
Posts: 3,985
renaissanceman told me about the Propel, HPR.
For my '87 300D, I have some great but confusing results.
I did a little test today, had the car filled 95% full with HPR and using a small fuel can of regular diesel and the car sitting on my level pad I topped it off until level at the top of filler pipe where it bends outward to the cap.

OK, first please note that I have a 2% or better caibrated and proven accurate speedometer (thanks to Palo Alto Speedometer, it is dead nuts at 70MPH

So I set out before sunup today on a trip with the trip odometer at zero and when I returned it showed 105.7 mi, mostly freeway at 65 MPH but some in town driving while I got lost briefly, thats what I get trying to meet up with someone at 6AM.

Anyhow I came back and filled up with diesel this time (no Propel) and it took 2.488 gal to get back to the same level on the filler neck.
This calculates to 42.48MPG - if this is true then maybe my trans has a 5 speed overdive in it (ha! I assure you it doesn't).

The only factor I can attribute to this is I am using the IP out of my 350SD gone to MB heaven. It was rebuilt to OM603 specs including a careful calibration that I witnessed at a Bosch FI facility (each delivery port was adjusted to a fraction of a cc of fuel delivery at ? RPM (don't recall the specifics but it was an afternoon well sent watching how this is done).

So, am I missing something or can a 603 deliver that kind of performance?
DDH

Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissanceman View Post
I just returned from a weekend trip on HPR.
364 miles on 12.1 gallons - 30mpg!




I've got a OM603 with brand new INA hydraulic followers (less than 1k on them) and brand-new Greazzer injectors with Bozio nozzles (less than 3k on them).

After an hour on the highway it is extremely quiet, as in hardly-tell-it's-a-diesel quiet. Cold it sounds like a POS clattery death engine anywhere from 1k to 2.5krpm.

I think I'm down to either delivery valve issues (Likely - they leak at the IP, and have bubbles in the return lines) or serious mechanical failure in the engine (unlikely).
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'99 E320 latest car. '95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine.
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  #154  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:52 PM
dieseldiehard's Avatar
Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
Posts: 3,985
Hi renaissanceman, hey I just gave you credit for telling me about HPR but I think it was someone else North of me.
We met half way when I carried some W115 seats down to San Jose as I recall, I hope they are serving you well.

Anyhow I wanted to ask if you changed the heat shields on the injectors when you installed new nozzles?
I reused old shields wile doing a rebuild of the OM606 in my '99 earlier this year. Hey, that engine sounded worse after throwing all the time and $$ into it, it made a racket like an injector was bad and that really ruined my desire for any celebration.
After installing new heat shields it quieted right down!
Its been my experience that diesels seem to be a little noisy after the heads been off and cleaned up all nice and shiny (specifically aluminum heads).
I had the head surface checked and new valve seals installed at the same time new lifters were put in so you can imagine how I felt when I got it running again and it sounded like it was on its last leg!

My learning experience was that injector heat shields get warped and they aren't supposed to be reused, as I found out the hard way.
I'm just curious if thats might be part of what's your issue?
Reid

Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissanceman View Post
I just returned from a weekend trip on HPR.
364 miles on 12.1 gallons - 30mpg!


I've got a OM603 with brand new INA hydraulic followers (less than 1k on them) and brand-new Greazzer injectors with Bozio nozzles (less than 3k on them).

After an hour on the highway it is extremely quiet, as in hardly-tell-it's-a-diesel quiet. Cold it sounds like a POS clattery death engine anywhere from 1k to 2.5krpm.

I think I'm down to either delivery valve issues (Likely - they leak at the IP, and have bubbles in the return lines) or serious mechanical failure in the engine (unlikely).
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'99 E320 latest car. '95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine.
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  #155  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:35 PM
Diseasel300's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 2,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldiehard View Post
renaissanceman told me about the Propel, HPR.
For my '87 300D, I have some great but confusing results.
I did a little test today, had the car filled 95% full with HPR and using a small fuel can of regular diesel and the car sitting on my level pad I topped it off until level at the top of filler pipe where it bends outward to the cap.

OK, first please note that I have a 2% or better caibrated and proven accurate speedometer (thanks to Palo Alto Speedometer, it is dead nuts at 70MPH

So I set out before sunup today on a trip with the trip odometer at zero and when I returned it showed 105.7 mi, mostly freeway at 65 MPH but some in town driving while I got lost briefly, thats what I get trying to meet up with someone at 6AM.

Anyhow I came back and filled up with diesel this time (no Propel) and it took 2.488 gal to get back to the same level on the filler neck.
This calculates to 42.48MPG - if this is true then maybe my trans has a 5 speed overdive in it (ha! I assure you it doesn't).

The only factor I can attribute to this is I am using the IP out of my 350SD gone to MB heaven. It was rebuilt to OM603 specs including a careful calibration that I witnessed at a Bosch FI facility (each delivery port was adjusted to a fraction of a cc of fuel delivery at ? RPM (don't recall the specifics but it was an afternoon well sent watching how this is done).

So, am I missing something or can a 603 deliver that kind of performance?
DDH
I've gotten strange results in my SDL doing fuel economy like you're doing. I can only assume there's an air bubble that gets trapped in the top of the tank and fiddles with the amount of fuel you can add. Anything less than 4 gallons and the results can get weird. I once measured fuel economy of 32mpg in stop/go city traffic in the SDL on a short fill like that. I can assure you, the SDL can NOT do that kind of fuel economy in stop/go traffic with the A/C running. Anything 10 gallons or greater and I return consistent fuel economy numbers. I average 23mpg in stop/go traffic with A/C and 28mpg in highway traffic doing 75mph with the A/C cranked. I'm also running a 3.5L IP, which I tuned a couple months ago. Before that, I was doing 16/18mpg - terrible.

Reply got a bit rambly - my point is - Do fuel economy data with half a tank or more fillups. Less leaves large room for error!
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The Diseasel Thread - Everything You Didn't Know You Wanted To Know
Delivery Valve as Source of Nailing Thread
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  #156  
Old 10-22-2017, 11:23 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Central CA
Posts: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldiehard View Post
Anyhow I wanted to ask if you changed the heat shields on the injectors when you installed new nozzles?
I reused old shields wile doing a rebuild of the OM606 in my '99 earlier this year. Hey, that engine sounded worse after throwing all the time and $$ into it, it made a racket like an injector was bad and that really ruined my desire for any celebration.
After installing new heat shields it quieted right down!
...
My learning experience was that injector heat shields get warped and they aren't supposed to be reused, as I found out the hard way.
I'm just curious if thats might be part of what's your issue?
Reid
I installed new shields when I swapped them, *however* one of the injectors leaked at the half part line, so I took it out and sent it back for a rework. When I installed, I did not replace the heat shield a second time -- it had had about 500-1000 miles on it at that point.

It sounds like I have knock on one cylinder, which fades away to nothing after everything is good and hot (20 min on the freeway). If delivery valves don't solve it, I'll look into the next step. I can't remember which injector had the same heat shield used on two installs, though...
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Mechanical Engineer -- I design and make otherwise unavailable car parts.

Garage:

2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 62k
1998 Saturn SL2, 4 speed auto, 240k - 35 mpg
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 153k - 28.7 mpg
1993 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 8v, 3 sp auto. 134k - 25 mpg
1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 106k - 28.6 mpg
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  #157  
Old 10-23-2017, 12:56 AM
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Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
Posts: 3,985
I was just speaking with a local friend here and he also mentioned it might be an airbubble.
I went out and removed the fuel cap when it was still light and the fuel was still up to the top, a half pint more and it would have spilled out, so I pln to drive it around the block once or twice to see if I can dislodge a bubble and recheck it.
If that fails it looks like I will have to take another trip in the bomb, and a much longer one next time to rack up maybe 200 miles or more but the thing is for trips I prefer my E320 wagon (OK, its a gasser but what a kick to drive and so usefull,,,,)
Or for good balance beteen torque, handling and economy plus some modern conveniences I prefer the 99 E300D, what a great road car! If I could only have a 124 wagon with the 24valve diesel and a 5 speed I would sell everything and be happy

DDH uh. my wife says I have too many cars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
I've gotten strange results in my SDL doing fuel economy like you're doing. I can only assume there's an air bubble that gets trapped in the top of the tank and fiddles with the amount of fuel you can add. Anything less than 4 gallons and the results can get weird. I once measured fuel economy of 32mpg in stop/go city traffic in the SDL on a short fill like that. I can assure you, the SDL can NOT do that kind of fuel economy in stop/go traffic with the A/C running. Anything 10 gallons or greater and I return consistent fuel economy numbers. I average 23mpg in stop/go traffic with A/C and 28mpg in highway traffic doing 75mph with the A/C cranked. I'm also running a 3.5L IP, which I tuned a couple months ago. Before that, I was doing 16/18mpg - terrible.

Reply got a bit rambly - my point is - Do fuel economy data with half a tank or more fillups. Less leaves large room for error!
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'99 E320 latest car. '95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine.
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  #158  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:38 PM
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Dieseldiehard
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bay Area No Calif.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
I've gotten strange results in my SDL doing fuel economy like you're doing. I can only assume there's an air bubble that gets trapped in the top of the tank and fiddles with the amount of fuel you can add. Anything less than 4 gallons and the results can get weird. (cut)

Reply got a bit rambly - my point is - Do fuel economy data with half a tank or more fillups. Less leaves large room for error!
I agree with the less leaving more room for errors.
But I wanted to see if there was an air bubble possibly so I jacked the rear up one side at a time as high as I dared go, about 3 in from the top of the jackscrew. No bubble. I tried adding fuel from a can, maybe 1 quart and the level was higher than ever, about to go into the overflow port.

Just for grins I checked the route distance on Mapquest and it is in line with the figure I see on my odometer, so I am still confused.
I could have as much as a 40% error (25MPG instead of 42 something). But will have to wait until I need to take a trip in the car in order to have another go at this.
Makes me wish it had a feature thats on the '99 turbodiesel, the real time fuel mileage calculator
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  #159  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:22 PM
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OK now confident I measured 28.27MPG accurate this time

allright I filled the '87 300D up on level ground.
Using a flashlight to observe the fuel as it came up to the ring on the filler pipe I then set the trip odometer to 000000.
This time I took a couple of trips in the country, one for about 120 miles then a few days later I took a second trip to Napa and the wine country.
Then, when I was nearly out of fuel (well, my fuel gauge is acting up - another issue) I filled up back to the same level (Chevron diesel $3.499/gal - Yikes!).
Using the 328 miles and the 11.598 gals fuel added, I calculated 28.27MPg.

The trip was mostly freeway, maybe 10 miles in city traffic with some uphill climbs. I tried hard to keep my speed around 65 or 70 with an ocasional burst to 80 so I didn't baby it but I wasn't leadfooting it either, lets say conservative.
I'm happy with the figure. DDH
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  #160  
Old 11-24-2017, 12:31 AM
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Hey guys haven't been on this forum in awhile and had seen this post and one thing I noticed was that biomass diesel can't be mixed with biodiesel (or at least it's not suggested) forgive me if I missed a reply but the two biodiesel stations in the bay area (dog patch in SF and Biofuel oasis in Berkeley) claim to mix the very two fuels. They both offer "B20 Renewable Diesel" biofuel oasis says it contains 20% Biodiesel and the rest is "biomass renewable diesel" so if the two can't be mixed how are these stations offering it in that mixture? I run their fuels in pretty much all my diesels except for my Sprinter and GL320 CDI (DPF''s and Biodiesel arent recommended) my 85 300D, E320 CDI and both of my Dodge Cummins haven't had any issues with the fuels. I've logged at least 60k miles on my 01 dodge Cummins with the B20 renewable mixture.
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  #161  
Old 11-24-2017, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasybenz View Post
Hey guys haven't been on this forum in awhile and had seen this post and one thing I noticed was that biomass diesel can't be mixed with biodiesel (or at least it's not suggested) forgive me if I missed a reply but the two biodiesel stations in the bay area (dog patch in SF and Biofuel oasis in Berkeley) claim to mix the very two fuels. They both offer "B20 Renewable Diesel" biofuel oasis says it contains 20% Biodiesel and the rest is "biomass renewable diesel" so if the two can't be mixed how are these stations offering it in that mixture? I run their fuels in pretty much all my diesels except for my Sprinter and GL320 CDI (DPF''s and Biodiesel arent recommended) my 85 300D, E320 CDI and both of my Dodge Cummins haven't had any issues with the fuels. I've logged at least 60k miles on my 01 dodge Cummins with the B20 renewable mixture.
I'm happy to hear you vehicles are running well but personally I still wouldn't use that fuel until Neste oil puts out different guidance or found some details about what process they're using to mix the fuels. The information at the beginning of this thread is at least a few years old so maybe there's some newer research.
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