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#106
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'81 300SD |
#107
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I filled up with HPR last week at $2.69/gal. D2 was $2.85 and reg unleaded $3.30. My son took the car down the valley where there is no HPR (Fresno station too far off Hwy 99). I told him to look for B20, which is also cheap and better for the IP, but he is clueless about cars. At least w/ gas costing more than diesel he is less likely to fill-up w/ gas.
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1984 & 1985 CA 300D's 1964 & 65 Mopar's - Valiant, Dart, Newport 1996 & 2002 Chrysler minivans |
#108
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Just filled up my '82 240d tank with 14.863g of Propel's HPR (17.2g capacity) in Arcadia, CA. 94k miles, rebuilt tranny.
My previous tank was all B20. Very pleased overall, and this isn't the placebo effect talking. Literally no exhaust and no smell (I was starting to worry about smoky exhaust with that last batch of B20). She starts like a champ (best I've heard since I've owned her), and engine noise/diesel shake has gone down noticeably. She drives more smoothly in general, and 2nd to 3rd to 4th shifts are more fluid. Noticeable increase in power, like she no longer feels like a slow car. And at $2.69/gallon, significantly cheaper than petrol diesel. The car was averaging about 24mpg with B20, so I'll post an update with the mpg of this tank. Given that you lose lubricity (relative to B20) with HPR, I also added about a quart of canola oil. We'll see how it goes. |
#109
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#110
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for what its worth, i've noticed an increase in soot like deposits above the exhaust area after running HPR for a few months now. i don't know if its actual soot, but i never got similar deposits there running either b100 or b20. it looks a little like old cars running D2 look. it was easy to clean off, but i'm a little curious as to why its there
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1981 NA 300D 310k miles |
#111
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Just reiterating my prior thumbs-up. I've been back up in the bay area for the last couple of weeks, and I've been running the HPR again. This stuff simply ROCKS!
I wish it was more readily available in other areas...
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Current rolling stock: 2001 E55 183,000+ Newest member of the fleet. 2002 E320 83,000 - The "cream-puff"! 1992 500E 217,000+ 1995 E300D 412,000+ 1998 E300D 155,000+ 2001 E320 227,000+ 2001 E320 Wagon, 177,000+ Prior MBZ’s: 1952 220 Cab A 1966 300SE 1971 280SE 1973 350SLC (euro) 1980 450SLC 1980 450SLC (#2) 1978 450SLC 5.0 1984 300D ~243,000 & fondly remembered 1993 500E - sorely missed. 1975 VW Scirocco w/ slightly de-tuned Super-Vee engine - Sold after 30+ years. |
#112
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I'm back in Fresno for a week or two and I've got another tank of HPR in my 300D. It's great fuel. I just did a diesel purge, so the engine is somewhat quieter across the board, but it runs better on HPR than #2 or B20.
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RenaissanceMan Labs: where the future is being made today. Garage: 2017 Chevy Colorado Diesel (nanny state emissions) 2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 77k 1987 Mercedes-Benz 300D turbodiesel, 4 sp auto, 156k - 28.7 mpg 1996 Tracker 4x4, 2 door, 16v, 3 sp auto. 113k - 28.6 mpg WARNING: this post may contain dangerous free thinking. |
#113
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Looks like its available all over SoCal now, not just NorCal.
76 station in Chula Vista: $4.13 regular $4.25 midgrade $4.35 premium $3.29 #2 diesel $2.49 diesel HPR Get the GasBuddy app and Propel Fuels app.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#114
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Yeah, all of Propel's biodiesel pumps have been replaced in SoCal with HPR.
I was originally mad about this, until I a) did even a minuscule amount of a research and b)actually tried the product (which was priced cheaper than the last tank of B20 I bought.) What I'm actually curious about now is how Propel is able to price a, by far, superior product cheaper than Petrol. More specifically, how much of this relatively low cost is due to state subsidies, and how much is due to actual costs of production/NexBTL product costs? The refining process of HFR is "hyrdrotreating", as opposed to "transesterification" which is the means by which BioD is produced. I guess I'm curious how much this product would cost without subsidies.. given the (expensive?) refining process, and given the fact Neste (corporation who produces RFD/NexBTL) produces this product in Finland and Singapore. Not in the US yet. These are the things I think about, as pricing anomalies lead me to wonder whether this model is sustainable in the long run AND how easily and quickly production/supply could be ramped up to meet anything close to the enormous petrol diesel demand. |
#115
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From the oil companies perspective, they can buy offsets from Propel for less than the state charges so its in their best interest to provide Propel with pump space at their stations in exchange for the right to purchase the offsets. Carbon markets like this have existed in California and in Europe for years for electricity produces and busineses that produce a lot of polution, its nothing new. What is new is that its being applies to the diesel and gasoline market. With time the number of offsets available for oil companies to purchase from the state will decrease which will make them more and more expensive. You can see where this is going. Over time the price of petroleum products goes up and renewables goes down. The goal of the market is to gradually move the state from consuming high carbon fuels (petroleum) to low carbon fuels like renewable diesel, E-diesel, ethanol (ugh) electricity, hydrogen (a whole other can of worms) etc. So the buyers of normal gasoline and diesel fuel are subsidizing renewable diesel. Keep in mind that the oil industry receives billions in subsidies from both the federal and state govs every year. The vast majority of oil in the world is produced by government run monopolies that collude with each other (OPEC) to fix prices and production quotas. It would be silly to expect renewable diesel to compete against a government subsidized and government manipulated market.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words Last edited by tjts1; 08-07-2015 at 02:35 AM. |
#116
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I guess I'm just curious as to why this isn't a bigger deal.. I mean, Big Oil, has a lot to do with it, obviously, so that's probably the answer right there.. Or maybe it's because most people don't drive (or care about) diesels. I forget that sometimes. Is there even enough waste vegetable oil in the world to meet for production to even meet, let's say, an eighth of global diesel consumption? Rhetorical, but food for thought (unless you know the answer). Midway through this, I found this article, which describes the market quite well: Feedstock Importer, Renewable Diesel Exporter | Biomassmagazine.com Looks like Neste is running at capacity (good for them), and you can only sell what you can produce. Their product is patented, so I wonder if any competitors have a comparable product... |
#117
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Solazyme is producing an identical product from algae although their production is ramping up just now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solazyme I think if the carbon market sticks around you'll see a lot more competitors show up. The ethanol producers in the Midwest are very unhappy with the maths behind it. http://www.ethanolrfa.org/exchange/entry/the-california-lcfs-and-sugarcane-ethanol-wheres-the-flood/
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words |
#118
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Does HPR have solvent like properties like BioD? Given the posts above, it appears that it does, but I haven't seen it documented anywhere.
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#119
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#120
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***** please Quote:
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The privately owned and publicly subsidized energy companies found in the United States are the exception to the rule. As I said before, most of the world's energy is produced by government run monopolies that collude with each other to manipulate price and supply. Its impossible for any private energy company to compete in the world energy market without government support. As much as some people find subsidies and tax breaks distasteful, they are necerassy if you want a domestic energy industry that can be competitive with imports. Expecing renewable energy to compete in this environment without any subsidy is just plain silly.
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CENSORED due to not family friendly words Last edited by tjts1; 08-08-2015 at 03:19 AM. |
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