Biomass based diesel vs biodiesel - Page 9 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tjts1 · #**121** 08-08-2015, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlabamaMan

Does HPR have solvent like properties like BioD? Given the posts above, it appears that it does, but I haven't seen it documented anywhere.

As far as I can tell, no it doesn't because renewable diesel is "parafinic" aka very stable.
http://www.iea-amf.org/content/fuel_information/paraffins/properties

http://www.iea-amf.org/content/fuel_information/paraffins/compatibility#compatibility_materials

AlabamaMan · #**122** 08-09-2015, 02:42 AM

Just refilled my 82' 240d with 15.620g of HPR. *2nd Tank*

This resulted an effective MPG of 23.559 for HPR for that 1st tank that was filled to the brim, but had about 2.3g of leftover B20.

Also, about a fourth of the way through the 1st tank of HPR, I poured about a quart of canola oil in the tank for lubricity, and another quart before I filled up the 2nd tank.

Counting the added half gallon of canola, we get a conservative MPG of 22.854mpg.

I was averaging around 23-24mpg on B20 before, but I was hauling rear on this 1st tank (cause I liked how it felt) and was stuck in terrible LA traffic more often than usual, so I'd say the fuel economy of HPR is more or less the same as B20, but "one" isn't much of a sample size.

I did notice that my starts weren't as beautiful towards the tail end of the 1st tank of HPR, but this could have been due to the mixture between HPR and the leftover B20 and/or the canola oil (I used some overly expensive "highly refined", high smoke point, non-GMO canola oil out of convenience -- don't do this). The 2nd quart of canola oil was the blue-collar Wal-Mart/All-American blend. I've learned my lesson.

Alas, after this 2nd fillup, she started magnificently, and even my wife noticed how quiet the engine was. Like a soothing murmur, as opposed to a drunken diesel clatter. The exhaust literally smells like hot nothing.

renaissanceman · #**123** 09-15-2015, 01:14 AM

I took another trip to Fresno, but opted to fill with D2 even while near a Propel station. I'm parking the car for at least several weeks and didn't know if the HPR would be harmful when sitting unused for weeks or months.

I've got a full new set of cam followers on the list for after I return to the car's location, and then after that it will be nothing but HPR for a time. I have a loud clacking noise which seems to be lined up with the speed of the cam, which prompted the car to be parked until it can be addressed. Hopefully it is nothing serious...

joshuajeeper · #**124** 09-15-2015, 09:19 AM

I've been using HPR almost consistently since May in both my '85 300TD as well as my wife's '14 GLK250 Bluetec. Both cars have had zero issues and my 300TD seems to run much smoother and I love the fact that it doesn't smoke at all. Any power or torque increases seem un-noticed though. I've been getting the same fuel economy in both vehicles and the 300TD has been using it for the past 18,000 miles and the GLK has been using it over the last 7,000 miles. I just wish there were more stations around.

allenying · #**125** 12-31-2015, 12:34 AM

hi,
i'm not in california so diesel hpr isn't an option for me, but i'm just curious if anyone has looked into how they make diesel hpr, when i checked, they're sourcing materials from se asia, processing it in europe, and selling it on the west coast of the US, or something like that. please correct me if i'm wrong, but i remember it was not a domestic source of fuel, which seems very unenvironmental, and can cause political issues, as does dino diesel, where as biodiesel made from waste veggie oil from local restaurants is mostly free of all that...

what do you guys think?

tjts1 · #**126** 12-31-2015, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenying

hi,
i'm not in california so diesel hpr isn't an option for me, but i'm just curious if anyone has looked into how they make diesel hpr, when i checked, they're sourcing materials from se asia, processing it in europe, and selling it on the west coast of the US, or something like that. please correct me if i'm wrong, but i remember it was not a domestic source of fuel, which seems very unenvironmental, and can cause political issues, as does dino diesel, where as biodiesel made from waste veggie oil from local restaurants is mostly free of all that...

what do you guys think?

See "pathway carbon intensity summary".
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/lcfs/2a2b/apps/neste-aus-rpt-031513.pdf

In short running around to a bunch of restaurants to supply your backyard stil can't compete with massive industrial scale efficiency even if it has to travel halfway around the world to get to your tank. Imagine if everyone buying HPR right now switched to trying to make their own biodiesel. Also keep in mind that this fuel is drop in for any diesel engine in any climate. It doesn't suffer the many limitations of biodiesel.

You are correct that shipping it from SE Asia to California reduces the overall benefit of this fuel. Several companies are setting up renewable diesel operations in the US but as far as I know those are still a year away.
http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/12559/renewable-diesel-production-planned-projects-on-the-rise

allenying · #**127** 12-31-2015, 01:13 AM

yes, i imagine making your own biodiesel is a whole other issue, but what about commercially produced biodiesel, is the nyc tri state area the only area where a company is collecting waste veggie oil and processing it for car and home heating diesel?

i guess you're saying diesel hpr doesn't gel at 32F, or eat away at natural rubber? or is it that diesel hpr works ok in modern diesel cars while biodiesel is better for older diesel cars? i haven't read much about the newer diesel cars since i don't own one, but i have heard some people just drop in biodiesel.

thanks for the response!

tjts1 · #**128** 12-31-2015, 01:45 AM

Yes, that's the appeal of renewable diesel. Most modern diesels with piezo injectors that operate at 20,000 psi or more are limited to 20% biodiesel or less if you want to keep your warranty. Biodiesel also has a limited shelf life and gells at a much higher temperature that #2. Renewable diesel doesn't have these limitations. There's some links on the first page that into detail about these differences.
Businesses have been collecting wvo from restaurants in California for years now. Most of it ends up being blended at 5% in other states where its required. CA has moved away from biodiesel and actually shut down a few biodiesel sellers because it increases NOx emissions as compared to #2.

allenying · #**129** 12-31-2015, 01:45 PM

ah, well, that's great it can work in the newer piezo injectors and has those other benefits. hopefully they get it domestically made!

i do wish there was a way to reduce NOx emissions with biodiesel in an old car.

i feel like as long as we're burning stuff, there will be emissions, so domestic or international fuel is a pretty big difference.

thanks for the info.

renaissanceman · #**130** 01-02-2016, 01:30 AM

Sort of OT, but has anyone tried HPR as a solvent? I have to clean out my intake runners, and have no biodiesel available locally. I have heard B100 is the best for that...