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  #1  
Old 12-10-2016, 08:07 AM
1985 190d
 
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Question for bioheads:

A local company is now producing biofuel from restaurant frying oil. I want to use it in my oil furnace, but have doubts about the wax point. My idea was to pour it into my home heating storage tank, which is 3/4 full of #2, maybe 25 gallons at a time, until someday that would all be bio.

We mostly burn oil when were away for a week, so a gelling situation would be catastrophic, and the tank is located in the cellar by the door. It can get down to 25 below here, with a cellar temp of at least freezing, and maybe around 20 above. Maybe colder by the door in extreme.

So im asking experts that i trust-- anal mercedes people like myself- should i worry about gelling. I guessing it will be b20 the first year, b50 the second year, and b 100 later.
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Old 12-10-2016, 09:04 AM
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There's a rending service in my state that markets wvo to hospitals for heat,and steam production.I assume tanks are underground where they don't get cold.
They got in tight with the State dept of health,mandated restaraunts use their service because of rodents.
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Old 12-10-2016, 06:21 PM
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When using high bio blends in sub freezing temps gelling would be a real concern.

From my experience... Bio made from wvo is not as bad on gelling as bio made from animal fats. Blending in petroleum will certainly help with that situation. The company that you're getting your bio from should have testing results that have measured the actual cloud point temperature of their stuff. Certainly they would also be aware and concerned about cold weather reliability issues. Not good for business to have a bunch of cold customers with frozen fuel in their tanks.

Being a stationary tank you could look into insulating and heating your fuel tank to keep it above the gelling temp.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:31 PM
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"My idea was to pour it into my home heating storage tank, which is 3/4 full of #2, maybe 25 gallons at a time, until someday that would all be bio." " It can get down to 25 below here, with a cellar temp of at least freezing, and maybe around 20 above. Maybe colder by the door in extreme."

I can see at least two issues. 1) Your method does not provide for blending. 2) At those temps, it will gel.

Your method of just pouring it into the tank will not provide a blend, and because the BD has a different specific gravity than D2 it will stratify. If you had a method of blending, you would have a better chance of avoiding failure. In a car, truck or other vehicle, the vibration of the vehicle in motion provides a rudimentary method of mechanical blending on an ongoing basis. Adding anti-gel will also fail unless you come up with a method of periodic mechanical blending. Just my $0.02.
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Old 12-12-2016, 04:18 AM
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some furnaces,I would think, might need different jetting to burn different fuels.Like natural gas, is different than propane
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:19 PM
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Gelling is very much dependent on the source oil (i.e. canola is different than soy). It shouldn't gel into the 20's. Teens or single digits..yes.


I went down one nozzle size on my burner when I began running homemade BD and jacked the burner pressure to 180psi.


I have 1 tank with HHO, a second with BD. I valve off whichever I want to run, and adjust the pressure...120 for HHO, 180 for BD. I have the air setting on the burner set so I don't need to change it for either.


I also "desensitize" the safety cad cell on the burner to recognize the "orangy" flame of straight BD as fire. Even though the flame is there, without desensitizing, the cad cell will not recognize the flame, and trip off the safety. Desensitizing consists merely of adding a resistor in parallel with the cad cell. It stills functions as designed and trips out with no flame.


Having said all that, I would shy away from blending in one tank, where you are never very confident about the ratio of BD vs HHO. You don't want the photoeye tripping out when you're away.
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:16 PM
1985 190d
 
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Location: canadian border vermont
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Thanks people. My oil burner does recirculate back to the tank but i take your warning seriously. I originally bought a vaporising oil stove (franco belge) to use in the spring and fall. That burns bio nicely, but as you say, it aint #2. I think i will leave the oil gun out of this and get a second tank just for the spring and fall. We dont burn much oil in the winter in any case. The wood boiler is too hot for the spring and fall, so thats when we burn oil-- about a 100 g a year.
The supplier did in fact assert that his cloud point was 17 deg, but in alternative energy, there is a lot of wishful thinking, so i thought to poll the experts.

Last edited by vtmbz; 12-12-2016 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Add content
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:19 PM
1985 190d
 
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update to bioheating

Im thinking i can use an 80 gal hot water heater as a tank. with an 110 v feed, cold temps will be a non issue.

has anyone ever worked with aluminum tubing. im reading that b100 wont tolerate copper, is that correct. in a house vitonnfuel lines would be a no no.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtmbz View Post
The supplier did in fact assert that his cloud point was 17 deg, but in alternative energy, there is a lot of wishful thinking, so i thought to poll the experts.
LOL yeah right. Run away from that guy!

"Besides its high oil content, canola delivers several other important advantages to biodiesel makers and users. At 7 percent saturated fat, canola has the lowest saturated fat level of all major vegetable oils. The low saturated fat content of canola oil means improved cold weather performance of the biodiesel. The truth is, even petroleum diesel will crystallize or gel at extremely cold temperatures. Pure canola biodiesel has a cloud point-the temperature at which small solid crystals form in the fuel-of 3 degrees Celsius (37 degrees Fahrenheit)."

Biodiesel Magazine - The Latest News and Data About Biodiesel Production

I made and ran biodiesel for a few years, best results I had was blending around B25 and I could go around 25F but I did have 2 times I could not start. Depends how long its at the low temps also, its cumulative. The number above is pure canola bio, restaurants usually use the cheapest they can find which can include hydrogenated oil which makes lousy bio.
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