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  #16  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:06 AM
moon161's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldan44 View Post
Running WVO right long term is:

1. sub 1 micron filtration of oil along with...
2. complete dewatering -> research heated upflow filtration
3. proper selection of oil (lightly used, non-hydrogenated oils = mexican, thai, japanese NOT pizza joint, fish fry, clam shack, mcdonalds)
4. quick use of oil - research 'polymerization' or proper long term storage in full airtight containers away from open air and moisture
5. proper system and temp: the oil must be AT LEAST 180 degrees at the injectors when being used and completely purged before shutdown.
6. proper maintenance of the engine to begin with. valves, timing, injectors, glow plugs etc. oil changes every 3k.

ive done this for well over 100k (from 150k to 250k on the engine) and my compression is still 380-400 and my injectors look as clean as petro-diesel ones. i personally do not run water injection - but it can be helpful - i just rather do the above steps correctly, and then it is not necessary.

if you are not willing or able to do these things consistently, run petro-diesel or a commercial biodiesel blend. otherwise you will destroy the engine.
How have you been measuring/assuring 180F at the injectors? PTC line heaters? Chris Goodwin seemed to neglect or dismiss heat loss between the final HX and the injectors, and used a snap disc coolant temp sensor to toggle the VO cut in. GregMN found he was losing too much heat from the FPHE in minnesota winters and switched all the XH to the trunk.

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Last edited by moon161; 05-17-2017 at 10:05 AM.
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  #17  
Old 05-17-2017, 12:35 PM
greazzer's Avatar
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Based upon all of your research, you will find out the following no matter what:

1. Proper WVO preparation will ensure long term, trouble free driving;
2. You have to heat it / ideally thin it (cut it) prior to combustion;
3. The "chemistry" of burning WVO will leave behind some 'junk';
4. It is a calculated risk to burn WVO and the money you save can be applied to your next engine;
5. These are old engines and they have a life span, and whenever they fail, it will because of 'normal' issues or WVO issues (or both)-- see #4 above
6. It involves a certain degree of investment of time and money, and it is a continuing investment throughout your time burning WVO;
7. It is a tradeoff process throughout, that is, your time and money for WVO systems, et cet vs. the ease and money for RUG, #2, et cet.; and,
8. The two-tank system is superior.

Are the trade-offs worth it? Yes, of course up until you decide to quit.

You will read endless comments, articles, threads, and review a ba-zillion pictures. You will see all sorts of countless "tricks" to save money, however, here's another little dirty secret of WVO: It does in fact cost money. You can employ all of your talents, and a ton of time to try to cut or avoid costs, but plan on spending well over $1,000. That's pricing a WVO cleaning system, e.g., centrifuge, motor, et cet. You will need a dedicated refinery space and dedicated storage space (assuming you're burning WVO full-time); plus the pricing for mods and changes to your car (car system); and the biggest cost of all -- your time. Finding WVO can be tough, also.
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  #18  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:32 PM
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There is NO free lunch, period. Some members love WVO, some loath it so take your pick. Treat it as a hobby, life style, feel good, green energy and you will enjoy doing it. If you cut it with diesel ( 50/50 ) or gas ( 20/80 ) then there is no modification or little modification to the car. I think these old diesel runs better and quieter with WVO or blend. The bottom line is filtering and de-water the WVO the best you can. I do not think the type of oil from restaurant makes any difference IMHO.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
How have you been measuring/assuring 180F at the injectors? PTC line heaters? Chris Goodwin seemed to neglect or dismiss heat loss between the final HX and the injectors, and used a snap disc coolant temp sensor to toggle the VO cut in. GregMN found he was losing too much heat from the FPHE in minnesota winters and switched all the XH to the trunk.
my frybrid kit should be listed as 'heavily modified'...

i have a temp sender right before the IP that goes to a gauge in my glovebox so i can see what the IP is seeing at all times. i measured under very heavy insulation and saw the heat loss to be about 10 degrees F using a FLIR camera from the IP sender to the end of the hard lines.

to make up for this, I run an 87C t-stat so that the coolant is running in the 190-195 range, and I get oil temps of 190 consistently pre-IP. i'm anti electrical heaters because of additional load on the alternator and the general fire risk.

i changed my switch-over switch/sensor from 140F i think it was to 160F to make sure everything was totally up to temp.

i insulate the hard lines and completely block the radiator in winter to maintain temp. if it's really cold I cut 10-15% with regular diesel to eliminate any worrying.

WVO for me is not to save money, or for the environment...it was and continues to be an incredible learning experience of building modding tweaking etc. if the idea of driving down the road on recycled cooking oil for the sake of doing it does not put a smile on your face, then don't do it! it's not a good way to save money at all if your time is worth anything.

my wife and i drove 10k miles around the country on in the '85 WVO gathered from contacts on the frybrid forum in 2010 - just that experience alone was worth all the effort.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:42 AM
moon161's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldan44 View Post
my frybrid kit should be listed as 'heavily modified'...

i have a temp sender right before the IP that goes to a gauge in my glovebox so i can see what the IP is seeing at all times. i measured under very heavy insulation and saw the heat loss to be about 10 degrees F using a FLIR camera from the IP sender to the end of the hard lines.

to make up for this, I run an 87C t-stat so that the coolant is running in the 190-195 range, and I get oil temps of 190 consistently pre-IP. i'm anti electrical heaters because of additional load on the alternator and the general fire risk.

i changed my switch-over switch/sensor from 140F i think it was to 160F to make sure everything was totally up to temp.

i insulate the hard lines and completely block the radiator in winter to maintain temp. if it's really cold I cut 10-15% with regular diesel to eliminate any worrying.

WVO for me is not to save money, or for the environment...it was and continues to be an incredible learning experience of building modding tweaking etc. if the idea of driving down the road on recycled cooking oil for the sake of doing it does not put a smile on your face, then don't do it! it's not a good way to save money at all if your time is worth anything.

my wife and i drove 10k miles around the country on in the '85 WVO gathered from contacts on the frybrid forum in 2010 - just that experience alone was worth all the effort.
Thanks. I just realized I'm in shock because this is a VO thread without trolling, dogmatism or other forms of dumpster fire.
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All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times
It's hard to
more likely to
concentrate on
have an accident
two things
when you're on
at the same time.
a cell phone.


www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?
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  #21  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
Thanks. I just realized I'm in shock because this is a VO thread without trolling, dogmatism or other forms of dumpster fire.
apparently there's a rational solution to a real world engineering problem...and it can be discussed as such :0)

i just think people get really upset because they love these cars and they get trashed because noobs dump oil filtered through blue jeans into the tank blissfully unaware, but with the best of intentions.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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There's so many ways this can go wrong and so few ways it can go right. If you pour enough time money and effort into WVO and don't make any mistakes along the way, you might not kill your engine. There are a few people that do this successfully over the long term but I think the majority just end up as parts cars on Craigslist that are "WVO ready yay!" I'd rather just buy renewable diesel and never have to worry about it.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
There's so many ways this can go wrong and so few ways it can go right. If you pour enough time money and effort into WVO and don't make any mistakes along the way, you might not kill your engine. There are a few people that do this successfully over the long term but I think the majority just end up as parts cars on Craigslist that are "WVO ready yay!" I'd rather just buy renewable diesel and never have to worry about it.
YES! purveyors of WVO systems back in the mid 2000's used the word 'easy' as pat of their marketing program. it is not easy, at all. not even a little bit. if it doesn't fascinate and excite you as a project, buy pump diesel. there's nothing wrong with that...2 out of my 3 cars run on pump diesel and i have no plans of that changing.

aside: i homebrewed biodiesel for a while as well. same rules apply. easy to do, hard to do well. that made running WVO look easy by comparison.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:12 AM
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when I did it I bought a thermo switch to cut line heaters off at 180,I also ran a temp gauge next to injector lines.I had a extra fuel pump in the trunk to push both veg,and diesel to engine.
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by oldsinner111 View Post
I had a extra fuel pump in the trunk to push both veg,and diesel to engine.
this is the one mod id add if i did it all over again. the system i have runs under vacuum from the lift pump (which is not self priming). some pressure to overcome vac leaks is a wonderful thing. the diesel side is a nightmare to get all the air out.

I have a self priming lift pump to stitch into that system at some point when I get a chance.
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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2017, 11:25 PM
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To be reliable and have little trouble with your engine, make sure it runs perfect on diesel first. Use a 2 tank system (frybrid style), use clean dry oil and it will perfrorm flawlessly with out trouble. Also to save money on filters and provide more heat to wvo, plumb system in a controlled loop 3 valve system. I had my head off after 60,000 on oil for blown head gasket, and I couldn't tell it ran wvo. The head gasket failure was unrelated to wvo. See my sig for wvo conversion.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-2017, 07:23 AM
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Mine was a manual system,I had a boat tank in the trunk,I ran my diesel tank fuel line into the trunk,and used a water hose garden splitter,backwards,ran a veg line on the other side,then fuel pump,to push either fuel back down to fuel line.At engine,I used a line after primary filter to a 5 micron filter that had two intakes and outlets,plugged one out let,and ran fuel to fuel coolant heater,from there to lift pump,then injection line heaters from fattywagons.com ,return line I used a valve to loop fuel when running veg,it returned into other 5 micron fuel filter inlet.I smiply, switched valves back to diesel when close to home.
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  #28  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsinner111 View Post
Mine was a manual system,I had a boat tank in the trunk,I ran my diesel tank fuel line into the trunk,and used a water hose garden splitter,backwards,ran a veg line on the other side,then fuel pump,to push either fuel back down to fuel line.At engine,I used a line after primary filter to a 5 micron filter that had two intakes and outlets,plugged one out let,and ran fuel to fuel coolant heater,from there to lift pump,then injection line heaters from fattywagons.com ,return line I used a valve to loop fuel when running veg,it returned into other 5 micron fuel filter inlet.I smiply, switched valves back to diesel when close to home.


This is what you don't want to do, I don't believe it is reliable or provide properly heated fuel to the engine. Will it run, yes, how long ??
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2005 Jeep CRD diesel--2.8L (138,000 miles) wrecked, insurance took
1993 Mercedes benz 300D 2.5 Turbo Frybrid powered. (336,000 miles) wrecked and sold as parts car
1990 Mercedes benz 300D 2.5 Turbo (170,000 miles) wrecked and sold as parts car

Check out my Frybrid Vegtable Oil Conversion at http://1990300dfrybridconversion.shutterfly.com/
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:24 AM
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bull its oil was 180 f,hotter than most systems
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2017, 08:35 PM
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My engine coolant doesn't even get to 180f most days. I wonder what a constantant 180f fuel supply does to the injection pump.

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