Tesla Model 3 for longevity? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TimFreeh · #46 07-11-2017, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

How exactly is the big bad gubmebt taxing the " fuel" coming out of the solar panels on my roof?.

Yeah you're just way too smart to ever let the government fool you. Of course since a Tesla is basically a rolling data collection device that downloads all its "autopilot" data into Elon's cloud I'm betting he'd be willing to share exactly how many miles you've driven with any government official that wants to see it. At least after Trump is gone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-20/the-tesla-advantage-1-3-billion-miles-of-data

tjts1 · #47 07-11-2017, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

Yeah you're just way too smart to ever let the government fool you. Of course since a Tesla is basically a rolling data collection device that downloads all its "autopilot" data into Elon's cloud I'm betting he'd be willing to share exactly how many miles you've driven with any government official that wants to see it. At least after Trump is gone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-20/the-tesla-advantage-1-3-billion-miles-of-data

Yeah I know. Thats exactly what I just said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

EVs need to pay road tax based on miles traveled which is what Oregon and a few other states are experimenting with.

So again, how exactly is the big bad scawy gubment going to tax the "fuel" from the solar panels on my roof?

The whole premise of a "fuel tax" on EVs is dumb. Electricity can come from any number of sources especially if a vehicle is charged at home. The only practical way to make EVs pay for the roads we all use is through a mileage tax which I support completely.

Dubyagee · #48 07-11-2017, 06:52 PM

After a complete audit is completed on the existing funding. Throw some skimmers in prison.

Fuel taxes are crazy as is tax decals for big rigs. That money is not making it to where it was intended.

Mileage tax is not the answer either.

Zulfiqar · #49 07-12-2017, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

Yeah I know. Thats exactly what I just said.

So again, how exactly is the big bad scawy gubment going to tax the "fuel" from the solar panels on my roof?

The whole premise of a "fuel tax" on EVs is dumb. Electricity can come from any number of sources especially if a vehicle is charged at home. The only practical way to make EVs pay for the roads we all use is through a mileage tax which I support completely.

Have you seen the electricity meter on your house? - Your hands will be tied when legislation enforces this very act and an addtional solar panel meter will report to "big bad gubmint" - dont underestimate big corp.

using the fuel tax example you gave, for ICE diesel vehicles on road, they can just fill up with red diesel - its the same result, you dont pay road tax on it. (till the cops write you up)

the "till the cops write you up" is very near for EVs.

OR

you can build your own roads with your own coin and drive on them as you please.

Zulfiqar · #50 07-12-2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

Yeah you're just way too smart to ever let the government fool you. Of course since a Tesla is basically a rolling data collection device that downloads all its "autopilot" data into Elon's cloud I'm betting he'd be willing to share exactly how many miles you've driven with any government official that wants to see it. At least after Trump is gone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-20/the-tesla-advantage-1-3-billion-miles-of-data

There is a unique problem in the horizon.. in some countries this data will be demanded by law to ticket/fine the driver of the car if he/she broke the speed limit, did an illegal lane change, running red light/stop sign by accident etc etc etc.

Wont be a nice day when you check your mailbox and find that your car ratted you out to the cops and half your paycheck is earmarked for the fines.

Dubyagee · #51 07-12-2017, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

There is a unique problem in the horizon.. in some countries this data will be demanded by law to ticket/fine the driver of the car if he/she broke the speed limit, did an illegal lane change, running red light/stop sign by accident etc etc etc.

Wont be a nice day when you check your mailbox and find that your car ratted you out to the cops and half your paycheck is earmarked for the fines.

Like smartphones. You own the phone, not the software.

tjts1 · #52 07-12-2017, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

There is a unique problem in the horizon.. in some countries this data will be demanded by law to ticket/fine the driver of the car if he/she broke the speed limit, did an illegal lane change, running red light/stop sign by accident etc etc etc.

Wont be a nice day when you check your mailbox and find that your car ratted you out to the cops and half your paycheck is earmarked for the fines.

So what? Most modern cars (not just EVs) already have black boxes that can record event data which can be used in accident investigations. The cell phone in your pocket is constantly recording and reporting your location and activities. Most free Apps are financed by selling your private data to 3rd parties.

The scenario you describe isn't something new or unique to EVs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

Mileage tax is not the answer either.

For EVs? Why not?

Dubyagee · #53 07-12-2017, 07:14 PM

It should be taxed by watts used to charge. Per mile will unfairly hit anyone that drives more efficiently.

P.C. · #54 07-13-2017, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DslBnz

Refine the fuel industry for more energy independence, cleaner environment. We need better infrastructure because it sucks as it is. EV's are a bandaid, and could be a trojan-horse effort to get us all dependent on the grid. Then they can jack up the rates, as they see fit, and there will be NO competition. So we will ALL be forced to pay out, or choose to walk. All old vehicles will be made ILLEGAL for on-road use. Planned obsolescence.

I'm sure it's all planned out. You participate in this current EV nonsense, you're providing for the funding of a New World Order.

Is driving a ICE vehicle funding an OPEC-supported New World Order?

edge · #55 07-13-2017, 12:11 PM

I put a deposit in for the M3, probably won't get delivery 'till late '18.

tjts1 · #56 07-13-2017, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

It should be taxed by watts used to charge. Per mile will unfairly hit anyone that drives more efficiently.

The electricity cost per mile to run an EV is miniscule compared to gasoline or diesel. Any "fuel" tax on EVs would have to be greater than the cost of the electricity even if it's purchased from the grid at peak times. It's much more straightforward to tax miles traveled and it doesn't penalize more efficient drivers.

Also EV battery packs consume some electricity when the vehicle is parked, especially in cold climates. With a "fuel tax" on evs you would be penalizing people who drive less.

75Sv1 · #57 07-13-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

You still need an electric motor to crank that non electronic diesel.

Unless it has a manual transmission. See your sig.
Yet, I think EVs will have an expanding niche or larger market. I think something like the Chevy Volt (hybrid) could be the best of both. That with a plug in module.

tjts1 · #58 07-13-2017, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75Sv1

Unless it has a manual transmission. See your sig.
.

It would still need electric glow plugs.

In other news...
Electric cars to account for all new vehicle sales in Europe by 2035

Dubyagee · #59 07-13-2017, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1

The electricity cost per mile to run an EV is miniscule compared to gasoline or diesel. Any "fuel" tax on EVs would have to be greater than the cost of the electricity even if it's purchased from the grid at peak times. It's much more straightforward to tax miles traveled and it doesn't penalize more efficient drivers.

Also EV battery packs consume some electricity when the vehicle is parked, especially in cold climates. With a "fuel tax" on evs you would be penalizing people who drive less.

Where ever the tax comes from it will almost ruin the point of owning an EV. Might as well make all roads toll roads. The whole system is corrupted beyond belief.

tjts1 · #60 07-14-2017, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

Where ever the tax comes from it will almost ruin the point of owning an EV. Might as well make all roads toll roads. The whole system is corrupted beyond belief.

Sorry, I don't share that view. The cost of driving in this country is incredibly low compared to all other developed countries and what we get in return is a fantastic value.

EVs as they exist today take that cost even lower and are not currently paying their fair share for good reason. Eventually as their popularity increases that will have to change and the best way to do so is a mileage or odometer tax instead of a fuel tax.