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  #16  
Old 06-11-2003, 12:29 AM
R Leo's Avatar
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All WVO answers will be revealed....

...go here:

http://biodiesel.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=cfrm&s=465094322&f=066094322

For the straight poop on WFO/SVO alternate fuels.

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  #17  
Old 06-11-2003, 03:31 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: austin, texas
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biodeisel/SVO

Great to hear this bio discussion. I've made and run about 100 gallons of biodeisel through my 300 td. Again, the methanol can be recovered in a still, an extra step, but cleaner and cheaper. the glycerine may be made into soap, used for a low temp grease, or as a heat source in a waste oil type heater.
I've had no problems with power, in fact it runs perhaps a bit better. Had to change the filters within a week(BioD cleans the tank and lines of all their blackness or soot pretty quick I guess) and, I've it appears to be time for a filter change again. This is due largely I am guessing to a WVo experiment I tried a few weeks ago: Started the car with the tank almost empty, added 10 gallons of wvo and ran it 120 miles or so, got to where I was going and added 7 gallons of petroD. Car ran really nicely on this, mostly highway.
Anyway, I learned filtering is quite important. Anyone have a good oneboard system yet? something reuseable would be nice, or I heard of someone fashioning something from a roll of toilet paper.
I'm going out on the road in a month of so for about 2 months between texas and maine, if anyone is interested in learning about how to build a processor, I would be delighted to share the obsession and propagate this great tech.
Currently setting up a 1948 GMC coach to run on WVO.
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  #18  
Old 06-11-2003, 12:40 PM
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Coleman (and all),

Thanks for your input. Keep us appraised of any developments. I think for us tinkerers with older MB IDI Diesels, WVO is the way to go once properly filtered. Seems simpler.

Sholin
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  #19  
Old 06-11-2003, 01:01 PM
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Location: South Florida
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Re: Run straight vegetable oil (SVO)...

Quote:
Originally posted by R Leo
Why bother with making biodiesel? OM617 engines will tolerate anything up to and including 100% SVO.


Add my datapoint to the mix too! I now have 5,000 miles on my 85 300TD running nothing but used chinese resturant fryer oil !!! I just filter it, then pour it in and go. Just *make sure it's clean*.

WAGONPILOT
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2003, 01:10 PM
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I too would love to do a conversion to WVO. I'd like to do a conversion that would allow me to use the main tank for WVO storage and a small (1-2 gallon) tank for diesel/biodiesel. Ideally the small tank would be located somewhere in the engine compartment (minimum modification). An in-line heat exchanger could be used to prevent modification to the tank. Alternatively or in addition electric in-line heat elements could be used. Additional mods would include some re-plumbing and the addition of some serious filtering to the WVO setup. Does anyone have experience with such a setup? Any caveats here?

BTW, I live in Portland, OR (rarely below freezing in winter).

Has anyone purchased the greasel conversion kit? I'm a little confused as to where the heater exchanger is located (in-tank?) and what it looks like. Anyone know of a good source for in-line heat exchangers? I'm thinking that the heat exchanger should be located closer to the fuel rail in the engine compartment than to the tank.

Anyway, I've obviously got some more research to do. Unfortunately most of what I've seen related to conversions is 'greasel' type... not quite what I'm looking to do so if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd sure be apperciative.

-John ('85 300DT)
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  #21  
Old 06-12-2003, 01:04 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
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Has anyone researched the comparative exhaust emissions of of SVO, WVO, and biodiesel?

I seem to remember that burning straight vegetable oil, either new or waste, results in some pretty bad stuff coming out the exhaust. That may be why ADM and others have little interest in selling SVO as fuel. Too expensive to clean up the exhaust. But biodiesel apparently is pretty clean.

I make and use biodiesel during the summer months. Five hundred gallon batches. My family of four drives six diesels and a trio of gassers. How could four people possibly need nine cars?
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  #22  
Old 06-15-2005, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73MB280SEL
Howdy,

I'm sure that the subject of WVO and Biodiesel have been discussed individually, but I was wondering what the advantage of bio over SVO is? Other than, of course, that on SVO, you have to start and stop on Diesel or it will be hard to get the engine started.

Is there a running advantage to biodiesel? Is the cetane of bio higher than SVO? Does the engine idle and run better on one versus the other?

Sholin
I've compared commercially available "pump" BioDiesel B20 with my own well filtered WVO, also mixed with Diesel at roughly 20%. I found the WVO to be better in the following ways-
- much quieter idle once engine is at operating temperature
- definately more full load power, measurable by observing amount of speed drop on specific steep hills encountered on my daily commute
- quicker startup, less glowplug time required
- slight improvement in MPG perceived- hard to measure because I don't make a precise measurement of how much WVO I mix in.

I cannot say there are any running advantages to using pump B20. Price is the same, MPG is the same, power is the same. There may be a slight reduction in engine noise.

How can I explain the difference? Well, I believe that BioDiesel has a lot of stuff removed from it through it's Sodium- Methoxide process. This is "stuff" that would still be present in WVO- glycerin, perhaps traces of tallow, sugars oils and proteins that come out of the food that was fried in it. All of this "stuff" would have thermal energy BTU's that would be absent in normal Diesel and BioDiesel. As long as your fuel system lets this stuff pass through, you benefit by WVO having higher Cetane and more BTU's.

The downside might be in how well your fuel system would stand up to the continuous passing of these foreign substances. If I keep on starting and running my engine from cold on a 20 to 30% blend of WVO with regular Diesel, I could very well encounter long term damage to my injection system. I hope not! I think there is merit in pre-heating the WVO year round, reducing the WVO characteristic higher viscosity and "stickiness" that the "stuff" creates.

Dave
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  #23  
Old 06-15-2005, 04:04 PM
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To add my .02:
I run my car on 85% wvo/ 15% kero. Lately I have been adding 100% wvo to my drum - I only use the kero to thin it enough to filter when I get fatty oil.

So far (3000 miles), the car runs great. I do not dewater, but I filter well and get good oil.

I am going to install an aluminum heat exchanger since I believe heated WVO burns more completely and if I encounter any fat in my wvo, it is less likely to clog my filters. The exchanger costs about $75 and uses waste heat from the engine. Otherwise, the entire car is unmodified.
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  #24  
Old 03-19-2007, 05:44 PM
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so what system is best - SINGLE OR DUAL TANK??? I am in Los ANgeles but will be moving to North Carolina in June. Thanks, Cary 85 300SD Turbo
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  #25  
Old 03-19-2007, 06:11 PM
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I've chosen the WVO route because I don't want to be handling toxic chemicals, and I've got small children, plus no separate building to use for a production facility.

Disadvantage of WVO is it requires a fair amount of mechanical tinkering if you have modified the car. Maybe once I iron out the problems with my system, it will be less work, but I'm sure there will always be problems. You have to worry about algea, water, leaks from all the extra plumbing, failure of electronic components, cross-contamination of coolant and veggie oil, etc. Also, if you use a two-tank system, and make a lot of short trips, the WVO will hardly ever get used, and you will be driving mainly on diesel.

From what I've heard, those who choose to dump straight veggie oil in their tank, without modifying the engine, will eventually have coked injectors at the very least, especially in anything other than a tropical climate. I suppose they can always clean or replace the injectors, but this would cut into the cost savings of the WVO.

All that being said, I love my greasecar, and plan to add more of them to my family fleet.
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  #26  
Old 03-19-2007, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carybrief View Post
so what system is best - SINGLE OR DUAL TANK??? I am in Los ANgeles but will be moving to North Carolina in June. Thanks, Cary 85 300SD Turbo
If you want your engine to lead a normal life, you will not burn vegetable oil in a cold engine (start on VO). This makes a dual tank necessary.
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  #27  
Old 03-19-2007, 11:13 PM
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Another data point:

I've put 8k miles on homebrew BD until winter arrived, then switched to 85%WVO/15%RUG. Another 4k miles on WVO/RUG.

Keep the fuel filtered to 5 microns.

I use Canola WVO because it seems to have a lower gel point.
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  #28  
Old 03-26-2007, 09:09 AM
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has anyone dyno tested the varyious mixes and fuels
to see what produces the most power?
does reg GAS add power?
at 120hp my 300sd could use some more hp
are some fuels/mixes better in turbos?
anyone useing a bigger turbo or running higher boost levels?

yes I am an old hot rodder
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  #29  
Old 03-26-2007, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nota View Post
has anyone dyno tested the varyious mixes and fuels
to see what produces the most power?
does reg GAS add power?
at 120hp my 300sd could use some more hp
are some fuels/mixes better in turbos?
anyone useing a bigger turbo or running higher boost levels?

yes I am an old hot rodder
Diesel has the most power because it has more energy per unit volume. An injection pump can only put out so much fuel, so at the max fuel flow, you will get the most power from "diesel". I would expect 10%-15% less power on B100 assuming an engine timed properly for the fuel its burning.

I too am a gearhead hot-rodder, and I hope you are picking up the idea that diesel hot-rodding is quite different from gassers. Basically forget most of what is true with gassers.
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  #30  
Old 03-26-2007, 01:58 PM
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figures free or cheap fuel has less power fry oil ect
but heavery oil like used motor oil is less power too?

any one make or use headers or freeflow pipes or mufflers ect
or the same for turbo's
on a gas car the pipes can add power and milage too if done right
on gas turbo's big down pipes and bigger pipes go well with bigger turbo's
along with intercoolers but need more fuel
can an eltric fuel pump push more fuel to and thru the injector pump or is that a bottle neck in the system
do bigger flowing injectors help on over boosted turbo's

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