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  #31  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:30 AM
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The item you're pointing to (big round thingy) is the rear subframe mount. These usually are due for replacement by 20 years or 200kmi, if not sooner... along with the smaller front subframe mounts. It's a big job, but if you need to drop the subframe to weld anything... I'd change all 4 while it's out. Hopefully there's a simpler solution though.



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  #32  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
The item you're pointing to (big round thingy) is the rear subframe mount. These usually are due for replacement by 20 years or 200kmi, if not sooner... along with the smaller front subframe mounts. It's a big job, but if you need to drop the subframe to weld anything... I'd change all 4 while it's out. Hopefully there's a simpler solution though.

Dave, he's not pointing to the subframe mounts. It appears to be a type of body plug in the area of the crack that's the part in question.
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  #33  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:43 AM
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Sorry Brian, I was referring to his comment in the new pics... didn't mean to confuse anyone!

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  #34  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:44 AM
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It is the subframe mount. I just didn't know what it was called. Dave does the sedan have the same rear end, other than the SLS shocks?
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  #35  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:47 AM
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The wagon subframe is very similar, but not quite identical... the rear wheel bearings are different, brakes larger, hydraulic spring legs, stronger lower control arm I believe, and a couple other things. I think the subframe mounts, diff, etc are the same though.

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  #36  
Old 08-07-2007, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Sorry Brian, I was referring to his comment in the new pics... didn't mean to confuse anyone!

Sorry, Dave.........I'm the one doing the confusing..........I missed that new set of pics and the fact that the discussion went OT.
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:24 AM
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And you're positive this isn't just cracking in some really thick sprayed-on undercoating?
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:27 AM
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Yes I can see the steel, touch it and bend it slightly. There is even slight rust on the newer pictures; although it doesn't show up with the smaller pictures. There are rubber plugs that I removed on the cross piece and in the back of the car. I can see down from the back of the car, and it is steel.

Chris
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  #39  
Old 08-07-2007, 07:09 PM
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I'd grind away all the under coating and weld those cracks up.

Don't waste your time with the dealer, all they are going to say is its an old car and you should buy a new one.
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2007, 07:21 PM
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Or will want you to buy a new subframe, for a crazy profit, along with way too many hours of $150/hr labor.

This is not a hard job, though it looks like it is.

Take off tires
Disconnect shock tops
Disconnect brake lines
Disconnect parking brake cables
Disconnect drive shaft
Disconnect speed and brake wear sensors if equipped
Support the subframe in two spots with hydraulic jacks
Remove 4-8 subframe to body bolts
Let it down on the ground
Clean up the cracks, weld and gusset
While you have it off, inspect subframe bushings and all suspension parts - it is very easy to change parts while the subframe is on the ground

Then put is all back together.
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:20 PM
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I'm going to have it welded. If it were just me driving it I would leave it. It does not appear to do much other than give the fuel tank bracket a place to attach. It hooks on in the middle where the piece is still solid.

I just want to hear what the dealer tech has to say. Hattie you are probably right. They will tell me not to drive and direct me to the show room.

Chris
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2007, 11:16 PM
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Chris, I just posted this information on your thread at Tech Help, although I thought I will copy it here too (so other members from the Diesel Forum will benefit too):

I hope my personal experience on the subject will provide you and other members some light on your failure.

My first W124 wagon was a 1986 300TE manufactured on April of the same year.

Bought it used imported from Germany in 1990.

Had it serviced at the dealer always.

On January 1996 had the regular oil change service and was notified by the dealer that the rear subframe had developed tiny cracks. The only way to prevent a big failure (exactly like yours) was to replace the subframe, which at the time was about a US$4,500+ job here.

The dealer offered a free x-ray analysis of the subframe and provided with a detailed estimate of the job to be done. The also concluded that with the state of the roads here, the subframe will fail in less than year.

Completely shocked about the news, I began a very detailed search of the subject. And here is what I found:

1/- The rear axle subframe failure was typical of the first four years of production of the W124 T-series (1986-87-88 and 89 model years). Not ALL models will present the problem, but many did.

2/- Depending on use, loads and climate, the subframes will fail from three to six years.

3/- Mercedes-Benz was well aware of the problem (appears that it evolved from a bad manufacturing process of the materials on the part).

4/- After several formal complaints, Mercedes-Benz AG decided to provide a free subframe replacament (parts and labor) on all wagons (and some sedans too) from date of manufacture up to ten (10) years of age, regardless of how many owners, mileage or countries the vehicle have pass through.

I did do a very detailed compilation of information and went back to the dealer. My wagon being manufactured on April 1986 had ONLY three months left for the warranty work to be perfomed.

Although the dealer did not mentioned ANYTHING about the warranty issue at first, when I presented all the documentation they just took the car and perfomed the complete rear axle subframe replacement, no questions asked. I ended up paying cero, but only because I did all the research.

The work is kind of major (as I over saw it every day): all suspension parts have to be removed, rear cargo floor area has to be removed, many electrical and most hydraulic lines have to be removed for the job to be perfomed.

So, the matter is well documented and vastly known by Mercedes-Benz AG. Although, I doubt the warranty work for the rear axle subframe did apply to American sold models, as the MBUSA treats this problems separate from Germany and worldwide complaints.

Anyway, by now all W124-Ts will be out of the warranty span of 10 years. Don't feel your problem is unique. On the contrary, it used to be quite common and well documented.
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  #43  
Old 08-08-2007, 09:36 PM
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Well the dealer was a big help, NOT.

I dropped the car off Tuesday night so they could have it all day. I tried to show the service writer/ asst. service mgr. where the cracks were, but he couldn't bring up the picture on AllData. So when I got home I e-mailed the same pictures I posted here.

At 4:00 today when I hadn't heard from them I called. The same service writer said he showed the pictures to his senior tech and he said the sub-frame is cracked and needs to be replaced. Oh and that it is unsafe to drive. I asked him if he looked up any TSBs or contacted MB for a fix, he said no.

So Hattie wins todays prize; "Don't waste your time with the Dealer". My wife will take it to a couple body shops tomorrow.

Chris
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  #44  
Old 08-08-2007, 09:49 PM
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I'd call back and talk to the service manager, and politely inform them that their factory-trained technician can't tell the difference between the body frame rail and the subframe. That kind of incompetence infuriates me!

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  #45  
Old 08-08-2007, 10:21 PM
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If I were you, unbolt anything in that area. Weld gaps in and grind smooth. Them possibly make a plate with a hole for the bolt to pass through and weld that over top as well.
Its amazing the stuff Ive seen done with metal. No use in declaring the car a loss without serious effort to patch her up

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