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  #46  
Old 05-23-2011, 07:57 AM
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Thanks for the link to this thread. Although I don't have time at the moment, I am very interested in your project, and look forward to reviewing it before I start on mine.

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  #47  
Old 05-26-2011, 04:19 PM
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Congratulations on the work, Army. It's going to be one hell of an accomplishment when you are done. You know, I had read in the mechanical section that you were 'rebuilding' your car... but I had NO idea what you meant until I hit this thread.

You must have a wonderful wife, and understanding neighbours. Or vice versa....

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2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
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  #48  
Old 05-27-2011, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharias View Post
Congratulations on the work, Army. It's going to be one hell of an accomplishment when you are done. You know, I had read in the mechanical section that you were 'rebuilding' your car... but I had NO idea what you meant until I hit this thread.

You must have a wonderful wife, and understanding neighbours. Or vice versa....

I think you made someone's day when she read that!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #49  
Old 06-07-2011, 01:52 PM
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What did I do this time?

I've reached the stage in learning where you think you've got it more or less cracked and then wham bam slam you're back down in the dunce's class...

Look at the mess I made today:-



I was applying a guide coat and I thought "hey I'll just add in a bit more thinner and save on some paint"...

Doh

It reacted really badly - this is spraying on top of a self etch coat (on top of a high builder primer as per instructions on high build primer tin) that was sprayed about a week previously.

I now know how to make a textured leather feel and look to paint work...

...my special effects skills are improving!
Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-boot-paint-disaster.jpg  
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #50  
Old 06-08-2011, 02:36 PM
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POR strip

Today I've been playing with POR strip

http://www.por15.com/POR-STRIP/productinfo/RSG/

Not a bad product for over here. It does strip paint for a reasonable price though I don't think it is as good as the aircraft strippers:-

Strippers that I like

I can't get the good stuff here.



Even so look at the state of the old paint work on the rear RHS door. I found 4 layers of colour - almost like rings on a tree - just every 7 and a half years a new skin was grown!



No bloody wonder there was always water trapped behind the trim...
Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-playing-por-strip.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-how-many-coats-did-have.jpg  
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #51  
Old 06-11-2011, 11:05 AM
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Progress!

Today I'm killing old paint and filler on the doors - not a nice job.



Dust? Not the name for it:-



The idea is to reach a stage like this:-

Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-one-rear-door-almost-ready-self-etch.jpg  
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #52  
Old 06-14-2011, 10:12 AM
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On some bits of the car...

On some bits of the car I'm getting quite close to being happy enough to start spraying the clear varnish top coat.

Now - in an ideal perfect world, according to Standox, I should be applying the coats of paint within 8 hours of each application - however a quick look at the date of the first post of this thread and the date of this post shows that I've missed that window of opportunity.

So before I apply a top coat I want to clean what I've got.

Has anyone used stuff like this before?

http://www.amazon.com/U-POL-Solvent-Based-Degreaser-Aerosol/dp/B004SQM1DQ

U Pol slow degreaser.




I've tried Eastwood panel prep but that stuff behaves more like paint stripper on Standox base paint. It is really meant for bare metal...

http://www.eastwood.com/pre-painting-prep-gallon.html



Or should I use a mild household soap and plenty of clean water?

I've got some of those handy little microfibre wipes that are meant to pick up dust and muck - should I just stick with those?

http://www.eastwood.com/devilbiss-dewipe-outs-ipa-formula.html
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #53  
Old 06-21-2011, 07:50 AM
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I've just discovered that my taking months to paint a car approach isn't ideal. Take a look at this thread for the answer to my question in the previous post.

Cleaning paint work whilst painting!

I've got to get a shift on and get that bloody clear coat on a whole lot quicker!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #54  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:02 PM
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Somethings, probably car paint is one of them, seem to cure or undergo some sort of chemical process as they age. Recoating early in that process may be important for the additional coats to bond properly with each other. There was somebody on this forum who was a paint expert. I'm sure he could enlighten this discussion considerably.
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:57 PM
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I'm seeing if I can cut and paste a quote from the other thread =>

The advice I got from Standox was

Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
I asked Standox customer support and here is their reply.

Very helpful I think

<QUOTE>

There are lots of factors that will determine whether the paint film will delaminate, your conditions will play a factor, as if the vehicle is "sat" in basecoat condition for a number of days there is a possibility moisture could be absorbed the surface layer, it is very difficult to give you exact advise without knowing allot more detail.

If the vehicle has been in basecoat for a while then I would recommend the follow process below:

1) Warm the vehicle to approximately 30 degrees centigrade if possible for 30 mins this will hopefully drive off any moisture that may be present in the surface,

2) If necessary lightly sand any areas with dirt etc using P1200 - P1500 dry

3) Once complete, use a tack cloth to wipe the vehicle to remove any fine dust particles etc.

4) Apply one last coat of basecoat and then if necessary over thin the basecoat and apply a "control coat" to eliminate any mottle within the paint film, (All paint application this should be carried out at approximately twenty degrees C).

5) Allow to dry for approximately one hour at an ambient temperature (approx 20 degrees C)

6) Tack cloth off the entire vehicle again

7) Mix clearcoat and apply as per Standox Technical Data Sheets (A two component clear contains Isocyanate in the hardener and is harmful to your health, we only recommend a air feed respirator should be used when applying a 2K clearcoat).

<END QUOTE>

Now I know what to do.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #56  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:58 PM
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Wow that worked!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #57  
Old 06-21-2011, 03:54 PM
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The advice or the "cut and paste"?
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  #58  
Old 06-22-2011, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
The advice or the "cut and paste"?
Well it is the cut and paste...

And here's more from the other thread - this time from jmk

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmk View Post
Reasonable advice, and it is sometimes hard w/o actually seeing the car.

I was just giving some advice to a person at work who has a Olds 442 where he was having problems with the paint.

You do get into adhesion issues if you wait too long to place the clear on.

1) adhesion because the basecoat has crosslinked too much to promote adhesion.

2) water contamination: isocyanate will readily self condense in the presence of water and cause all type of adhesion and appearance issues. That is why you pay so much for "urethane grade" solvents. The big reason they cost more is that all of the water has been removed from them.

There are some advantages in waiting

1) excess solvent from the basecoat has the chance to evaporate. This is especially true if the the basecoat was applied too thick, or the cure was retarded from excessive cold weather.

2) appearance will be better. The DOI (distinctness of image) or clarity of the coating will be better if the clearcoat and basecoat do not intermix. One of the tricks that I employed when developing OEM coatings was to carefully match the cure rate of the basecoat with the clear to maximize appearance.

The guy who sprayed his Olds had too thick of a basecoat. He ended up having solvent bleed from the basecoat bugger up the clearcoat. It happened a couple of weeks after he painted it. The solvent worked its way through the film and wrecked the finish in certian areas.

Now, what to do. Without actually seeing what you have, it's hard to say. If you remember earlier, I mention not to use too much basecoat. Spray it until you get consistent hide, no more. Now, I have seen shops wait as much as a week before applying the clear. They did not have any delamination issues, but that workability window can have a lot of variables in it.

Personally, I do not think that the base has cured too much after a week of air drying for the clear to adhere to the basecoat. The water contamination is the real issue. The shops that waited to clear had 50-60 C bake ovens to force the cure to completion once the clear was applied. I do think delamination due to water contamination would be more of an issue than basecoat cure. I do like the idea of raising the body temperature to drive off water. That would be prudent.

I wouldn't use any of those spray strippers since they may have solvents that could be inbedded in the basecoat and give you issues like the Olds example. Since I've never used them myself, I like to be corrected on this point if someone has.

There is significant post cure in refinish coatings for the first 30 days after application. I do not think adhesion due to basecoat cure is the issue here. Contamination is the biggest issue, esp. water contamination. BTW, it sounds like the basecoat you used was single component. If that is true, then you would have a lot more time for the coatings to chemically adhere to each other. Also, since the basecoat wouldn't be crosslinked (where two or more components of the paint chemically change when drying), you wouldn't have the basecoat becoming chemically more difficult to bind to. Again, if the basecoat is single component, then there is more possibility for cure issues.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #59  
Old 06-25-2011, 03:10 PM
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Loads of nice information here:-

http://www.dingking.com/paint_touch-up_training/

If you're having trouble with paint!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #60  
Old 06-27-2011, 12:30 PM
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Nice work Army...

Just read your whole thread. Wow, what a lot of work :-)

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