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  #1  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:40 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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I've taken your advice and started to paint!

G'day Folks,

I thought I'd start a work in progress thread. I'm re-spraying the front wings and bonnet / hood of my car. This is the first time that I'll have ever done this so I'll be posting the good, the bad, and hopefully not too much ugly.

The front wings of the car (a 1981 W123 300D) were getting a bit crumbly - so I took 'em off for a repaint. The bonnet on the top side is sort of OK but underneath where moisture has been trapped between the insulation and the metal it is also a bit flaky.

I've taken my usual approach with rust:- Angle grinder + wire brush attachment, then Metal Ready (or KBS equivalent) and then POR15. This is fine for the underside but I want to make the top side beautiful.

See the attached pictures for an overview of the state of the right hand front wing (on the underside)

Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_inside_rust1.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_inside_rust2.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_inside_rust3.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_inside_rust4.jpg  
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 10-06-2010 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Added more info
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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And for the top side of the front R/H wing

Here are some pictures of the upper side / outside of the wing.

I'll be pleased to hear any comments you may have. I'm following the advice from this thread:-

Calling all paint experts - is this a good idea? "paint and cure", good answers.

(One I started earlier)
Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_outside1.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_outside_rust1.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_outside_rust2.jpg  
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2010, 09:53 AM
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POR15ed it

Here are some shots of the front wing after a bit of POR15. I'm using the Tie coat primer on top of the POR 15.

I think I'm getting along quite well with the wet and dry sand paper. I've elected to do this by hand as I can be a bit over enthusiastic with power sanders...

...does anyone know of a neat way of washing all the sludge off of the paint work?

I've just been rubbing it off with water...
Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_por15_1.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front_wing_por15_2.jpg  
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2010, 02:18 PM
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I use paint thinner or mineral spirits (not reducer) followed by a 50-50 denatured alcohol/water mix in a spray bottle.

The paint thinner makes the sludge "flow" better than water. The mix cleans up any residue from the thinner.

I use a paint brush for the mineral spirits part and wipe the spray with old terry cloth towels. Hang the towels out to dry. Don't just toss them in a container.
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  #5  
Old 10-06-2010, 04:34 PM
stricht8
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Boston, MA
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I know that you are following the instruction on the POR15 can but from my experience the repair lasts longer if you completely eliminate all traces of rust. You will end up with a
"pickled" surface which will allow the POR15 to adhere. You can achieve this by either sandblasting or multiple passes with naval jelly to completely remove rust from the pitted areas.
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  #6  
Old 10-07-2010, 03:24 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dseretakis View Post
I know that you are following the instruction on the POR15 can but from my experience the repair lasts longer if you completely eliminate all traces of rust. You will end up with a
"pickled" surface which will allow the POR15 to adhere. You can achieve this by either sandblasting or multiple passes with naval jelly to completely remove rust from the pitted areas.
Well I'm sort of half following the instructions - I do get off as much rust as I can with an angle grinder and wire brush attachment - in smaller confined areas I use a hobby grinder to take away as much as possible. Once I've removed as much rust as I can I use a de-greaser (marine clean) and then Metal Ready (or KBS Rust Blast) and then POR15 over the top.

I have also noticed that sometimes if the surface is not cleaned as well as it could be or as much rust as possible has been not removed, you can see new rust poking through thin coats of KBS Rust Seal. So far however, I've not noticed that with POR15, even though I guess these products are essentially the same...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 10-07-2010 at 03:25 AM. Reason: Punctuation!
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2010, 08:45 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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Spray filler done?

Update:-

I've been sanding and spray fillering and here are some pictures of the results so far.

I've been washing the panel down and I can see on some parts that the surface looks nice and smooth. The whole surface feels really nice and smooth - to the touch - but I'm a bit worried that over greater distances I'll have ripples or noticeable undulations.

Does anyone know how I can check for this at this stage on the curved surfaces? (On flat surfaces I can use a straight edge - but curves...)
Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front-wing-rhs-after-spray-filler.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front-wing-rhs-after-spray-filler2.jpg  
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2010, 11:48 AM
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Ripple...

Hey Army,
It's looking Good!
I'm no expert but I believe the procedure for finding any low spots, etc... is to spray a darker color primer over what you have now and then sand it off using a flexible sanding block. The high spots will be the lighter color and the low spots will be darker.

The sanding blocks I've seen are made of a semi hard foam rubber that will bend around the curves but still keep your sand paper flat on the paint surface.

When you spray the darker color, I don't think you need to have complete coverage either. I've seen people just spray enough to make speckles (is that a word?). I guess that's to save time sanding but it seems to me that you'd want "some" coverage everywhere to expose any low spots.

Also, when wet sanding, I have the sand paper in one hand and the hose running in the other and keep a constant flow of water over the sanding area. It keeps the sludge to minimum and your paper will last longer.

Keep going Army, it's going to look SWEET!!!
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Stretch's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StaggerLee View Post
Hey Army,
It's looking Good!
I'm no expert but I believe the procedure for finding any low spots, etc... is to spray a darker color primer over what you have now and then sand it off using a flexible sanding block. The high spots will be the lighter color and the low spots will be darker.

The sanding blocks I've seen are made of a semi hard foam rubber that will bend around the curves but still keep your sand paper flat on the paint surface.

When you spray the darker color, I don't think you need to have complete coverage either. I've seen people just spray enough to make speckles (is that a word?). I guess that's to save time sanding but it seems to me that you'd want "some" coverage everywhere to expose any low spots.

Also, when wet sanding, I have the sand paper in one hand and the hose running in the other and keep a constant flow of water over the sanding area. It keeps the sludge to minimum and your paper will last longer.

Keep going Army, it's going to look SWEET!!!
Thanks for the tips and encouragement... is the use of a darker colour called a "guide coat"? (That seems to make sense if it is!)
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #10  
Old 10-23-2010, 12:17 AM
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It seems logical based upon the name.
You should be able to find those dense foam pads pretty easily. It's like the rubber stuff that's on a grout float but thicker. It bends enough to follow the sexy curves of your car but stiff enough to stay out of the low spots.
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1980 300TD
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2010, 10:02 AM
Stretch's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Any practical advice?

The weather was good so I popped outside for a bit of spraying!

I've attached some pictures of the results - first coat of brown.

As you can see some of it is a bit patchy. I've tried to set up my spray gun correctly and I've got it set so that I no longer create a huge cloud of paint! However I now seem to be bursting out more air than paint - even though it does seem to be coming out at a steady rate. For the front wing of my W123 it took about 7 mins to spray. Does that sound too long?

The first coat has also highlighted a few scratches and bits that need some more spray filler - I'll be fixing those.
Attached Thumbnails
I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front-wing1.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front-wing2.jpg   I've taken your advice and started to paint!-front-wing3.jpg  
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2010, 10:59 AM
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7 minutes does sound too long. Per coat or total time?

You should be able to do the wing in about 8 passes maximum. A pass should not take you more than 10-15 seconds.

Double check your mix and aperture.

Be sure to release the trigger completely at the end of each pass.

What p.s.i. are you supplying the gun? What type of gun, i.e., gravity fed, suction, HVLP, airless, are you using?
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2010, 03:19 PM
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Artist at work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
7 minutes does sound too long. Per coat or total time?

You should be able to do the wing in about 8 passes maximum. A pass should not take you more than 10-15 seconds.

Double check your mix and aperture.

Be sure to release the trigger completely at the end of each pass.

What p.s.i. are you supplying the gun? What type of gun, i.e., gravity fed, suction, HVLP, airless, are you using?
Hi Mike thanks for your response:-

I knew it was a technique problem - what I'm doing is holding the trigger down like an impatient teenager and pretending to be Leonardo Da Vinci. I didn't really want to be running all the way up and down the length of the panel like a robot - I was trying to produce an even surface by looking at the "density" of the colour as it fell on the surface. (Do you see what I mean?) My technique was a bit more like trying to make even swirls of polish on the hood of your car - like those slick dudes on the Discovery Channel! (Confused?)

Anyway I've got a compressor - air line - filter - old fashioned pipe in a cup spray gun. I think the gun is made by Sunex - I'll post a photograph if it helps. You can adjust "round" on the top dial and the lower dial regulates the fluid flow out of the cup. The amount of air is regulated on the regulator at the compressor. I've set it up to be 70PSI when I'm holding the trigger down.

When the weather is good again I'll rub down the panel and try the set up with a bit more flow... at least now I've got a better idea of how long the job should take - thanks!




Another thing that may be important:-

I have noticed that when I sprayed the panel with spray filler (with an aerosol) I got a nice smooth as a baby's butt finish. However, after spraying the colour coat I got a finely pitted - rough as a badger's arse finish...
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Last edited by Stretch; 11-04-2010 at 03:25 PM. Reason: More info
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2010, 07:03 PM
jmk jmk is offline
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Location: Cleveland, OH
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Sounds like too much pressure. The gun is spraying "dry". I was noticing that from your pictures, yet it also had a mottled look. Mottling is when you have patchy light and dark areas in your sprayed panels. Lighter tan metallics are very suseptible to mottling. I'm wondering if your reducing package is too slow and your spraygun is set up to spray too dry.

The mottling could be because you are spraying outside. The variance in even light winds can affect color consistency.

To try to find out if it is an HVLP gun. That will be very important on the setup. Also, is there a model number? I used to run conventional guns from 30-45 psi and HVLP from 7-17 psi. I would start with what the manufacturer recommends.

Another issue could be with your compressor. Does your line filter have a regulator on it? You need constant pressure for the best appearance. If your compressor does not have enough volume to keep the pressure constant, then you have trouble controlling your application appearance.

And definately run up and down the panel like a robot. That also could be the cause of the mottling. For the basecoat, you want to apply it just to hiding. As soon as the primer is covered, that is enough. too thick a basecoat will hurt appearance and can cause other issues like cracking.

The reason this is strange is usually the dryer the application, the less the mottling. You've managed to figure out how to do both at once. The effects guys would love you!
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:26 AM
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Spray gun info

Thanks for the response jmk - I'll look it all up when I get home from work

EDIT:-

Right I'm home.

I have got a Sunex SX70a

The closest thing that is still made by Sunex is the SX70c (I think):-

http://www.sunextools.com/search.php?page=6&limit=6

I found the box it came in and in the bottom I found the instructions - doh - the maximum pressure seems to be 70PSI but most of the tables only show data for as much as 50PSI - so I'm putting way too much pressure through the gun...

...time for a rewind...


Last edited by Stretch; 11-05-2010 at 10:49 AM. Reason: I'm home from work!
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