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#1
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240D Rust Discovered under Battery tray
I need the an opinion from the guru's of the site! To make a long story short, I purchased a second 240D to help a family member who was in need.
I've cleaned the hood drains the next day after purchased, which was about a month ago and now am starting on investigation around the battery and under the battery tray. As seen in the pic's, I'll be replacing the battery tray, but upon poking around with a screw-driver after vacuuming all the loose rust and a hold emerged to inside the car. I kept poking until I felt firm metal. Didn't want to enlarge the hole any further until I could get an opinion from the collective effort of peachparts members. So folk's what should I do about fixing this hole in the firewall? Thanks Greg |
#2
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I had the same hole in my 82 wagon when I first bought it in 2004. I ended up wire wheeling all the rust off, inside and out. The whole will get bigger. Then painted with POR15 to kill the rust. Then I fiberglassed over the whole on both sides forming it as best I could. Then painted the whole thing again with a color matching the body. It held up great for the 6 years I owned it.
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Andrew '04 Jetta TDI Wagon '82 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold '77 300D ~ Sold
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#3
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That is a serious area for rust to be in. three are several body panels in that area that are spot welded together. the rust can get between them. It looks like maybe that hole goes into the cabin area.
Remove the pass side carpet and have some one shine a flashlight and see if you can see it from under the dash. or might even see daylight. this will be a source of a water leak also. I had that problem in the 85 300D. removed the R/F fender and splash shield, and found the rust wes under the rubber coating. had to dig back to find good solid metal. treated it all with POR products, (follow their directions) and then using some very thin fiber glass cloth, used it to bridge the holes, soaked with the POR paint. Jasco paint stripper will soften the rubber under coat, then I have an old 1/2 in wide wood chisle I use for scraping and digging. The battery tray is beyond repairing. Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616... 1) Not much power 2) Even less power 3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast. 80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works |
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I had the same problem on my 85 300D. I left the rust as is and just covered it with POR. After that I repaired and recovered the holes with pieces of plastic from one of the 40 lb vegtable oil containers. The material is very strong and I used JB weld for the glue and it went to the junk yard looking very well in that respect. I like working with those oil containers because you can cut the corners out of them very easily to fit almost any difficult corner spot.
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Junqueyardjim Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis 1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA 2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage, Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it! |
#5
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Thanks, Biodiesel300TD. I anticipated that the whole will get bigger. When the rain stops I'll pull out the grinder / compressor and see where that hole is going to get!
Thanks junqueyardjim, I like the idea of using a piece of hardened plastic to form a repair. Although this is a plausible idea, I have to agree with charmalu for there are three body panels which all join in that area. Once I enlarge the whole to get to good metal, I know by then how many panels barriers I compromised! Yes the hole extends into the passenger side and is visible from under the dash. As for the battery tray, I know that it's toasted and needs to be replaced. This is why I haven't removed it for until I order and get a new one, I'm not opening up a can of problem while leaving the car un-drivable. Not to say that I don't have other cars to drive, I do, but I like my little 240D. Is this a structural area which may need metal welded in place? |
#6
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you can buy a new battery tray, easy as pi to the 1st digit.
That area isn't structural but the areas below it are. Any rust is bad |
#7
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Quote:
if you want to "restore" it. youre going to have to cut and weld new pieces in, which can be very time consuming or pricey. fiberglassing it will allow very little water to get in, try to glass both sides of the hole if you can. spray the rust affected area inside the hole with body wax to prevent any other moisture from affecting the body. air + moisture = rust.
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95 E320 24k 07 E550 4matic 20k Soon to go 1977 240d 481k 2013 SL 600 Non MBs 02 Ford F250 Lariat 4 Quad Cab 7.3 Diesel 95k 01 Chevy Suburban 249K LT 5.3 V8 88 Saab SPG Convertible 32k 06 Lincoln Mark LT 59k 62 VW Bug 52 Bentley Mark IV 53 GMC half Ton Pickup 08 VW Beetle convertible 2k 07 bmw x5 4.8i 17k 03 bmw x5 4.4i 40k 08 Range Rover S 9K |
#8
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Thanks IVIuzzy. I want to eventually fully restore this car and keep it in the family, which means that I will get a mig welder and learn how to weld. At the moment, I've got to cover this hole and will do the double fiberglass patches (inside and out) after nibbling the hole out to good metal.
Once I get a new tray (I agree TheDon, they are easy to get) I plan to inspect the sway-bar area. From the wheel well, the sway-bar looks still rust free where it passes into the engine compartment. When I purchased this car, all the front drains where clogged which I had to open. This explains why the battery tray is all rusted out. Not sure what I'll find under the tray, but what-ever it is it will get treated and corrected so this won't happen again. |
#9
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If you are welding in this area you will probably find that the sound proofing on the cabin side of the metal will at the very least smoke. To remove this sound proofing I found that it was easier to do so with the dash out...
I'm adding to the work list... ...and I'm adding a bit more now... ...I'm sorry to say that water flow downwards - so check the bottom of the fire wall and along the bottom of the sills / rockers to see if you have some more rot. If your carpets and the sound insulation underneath are wet and you really want to save this car you need to strip it all out now. From what I can see (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/303669-my-w123-saloon-sedan-old-accident-repair-bit-rust-repair-thread.html) these cars don't drain well from the inside out. Here's the final pedantic comment of this post:- Monocoque structures use all of the metal as "structural parts". To consider that hole in the OP's car is not in a structural place isn't correct - especially at that point where several parts come together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocoque#Automobiles I agree to a certain degree, however, much in the way George Orwell would probably put it that all places are structural but some places are more structural than others! If you look in the spare parts catalogue you'll see that you can buy a whole front section that runs from the headlights right back to the battery tray (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/286079-w123-hood-bonnet-spring-pocket-refurbishment.html) ...so this is a very important part of the structure. In a way you might consider the positioning of the battery - which is likely to leak acid - over this joint to be a bit of a daft idea... ...as is to convert the top of it into a gutter formed from two pieces of spot welded metal sealed with a bit of rubber...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! Last edited by Stretch; 09-25-2011 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Added a link and yet more information |
#10
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Army, are you suggesting to relocate the battery to the trunk so as to be able to keep this gutter/scupper area clean ? Also, in another thread, you talk about the seam sealer going bad over 30 years, especially in the hood-hinge area. I agree. A possible solution borrowed from the marine industry is to use 3M 101 which is a flexible joint compound in these area.
You are correct in that these cars don't drain well from the inside. The last huricain to come through here dropped a massive amount of rain and got all the carpets wet (front and back on both sides) Suspect this to be a windshield gasket in need of replacement which will be done within the next few weeks. Yes, and I destroyed a rubber plug behind the drivers seat in getting this water out. Have a couple on order which should arrive this week. In subsequent rain falls, the floors remain dry. |
#11
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Quote:
I want to come up with a solution for better inside to outside draining for the floor pan. Any ideas? Thanks for the 3M 101 tip - I'll have a look at that.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#12
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On my 79 td I attached a rubber sheet under the battery tray when I first got the car it seemed stupid the battery would be sitting on top of these panels. Chadtdt has awesome metal repair pics popriviting instead of welding using jbweld & por-15
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#13
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Quote:
Here's the link http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/231360-hood-hinge-drain-rust-repair.html
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
#14
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Army, you could do a floor pan drain just like the ones I'm putting in the trunk wheel wells. The image you are looking for is similar to the built-in drain located behind the front Jackpoints. I've done this successfully on boats. You are making a scupper drain. Drill a hole and then form a counter sink in it. Take a piece of copper pipe, say 9.52 mm or 3/8 inch in diameter, about 4 to 6 inches long. Flare one end and bend a lazy "L" shape. Put in hole and secure in place with 3M 101 or for a more permanent fix with 3M 5200. Once the bonding agent dries, use a rubber hose to cover copper pipe on the outside of the car. You could even cut the hose and taper so as to create a vacuum effect to suck water out. Plus the copper and steal of the car are both dis-similar metals. That creates electrolysis (bad thing). You beat this by using the 3M101 between the copper and the steal for the scupper drain.
In doing my 240D hood drains, I'll be using 3M101 for the gutter-trough in the hood drain, and follow that with Organic Rustproofing for Cars Trucks: Linseed Oil Paint Case Study Greg Last edited by steeleygreg; 09-26-2011 at 01:20 AM. |
#15
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Sounds good Greg - are you going to post the results when done?
(Oh yes and for the benefit of those who can't read your PMs - the linseed oil solution looks great for unrusted surfaces but used motor oil is cheaper!)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits! |
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