Advice on floorboard rust, please - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 05-18-2003, 11:55 AM

each one comes with advantages and disadvantages.
I have an appt tomorrow to have a guy take a look...he's a welder, more of an artist really, but an expert welder more importantly and he said he'd be happy to take a look at it.
one question: what are the lines running fore and aft in the channel UNDERNEATH...one is ported out underneath the passenger side rear seat. The reason I ask is because we will be working nearby and I want to know if I will have to remove or what?

Rick Miley · #17 05-19-2003, 10:44 AM

Wow, all those replies and great discussion, but you left him hanging on an easy one. If you're talking about yellow plastic lines, they are the vacuum lines for the door locks. If you're using heat in the area then yes, remove them.

BTW, my floor was repaired before I bought the car with sheetmetal riveted in place and sealed with what looks like black RTV.

edit: Never mind about that vacuum line comment. Your other post indicates you were talking about the hydraulic lines under the floor.

leathermang · #18 05-19-2003, 03:24 PM

Anyone considering Fiberglassing anything serious.... should go to one of those marine parts supply houses... they know fiberglass and all the stuff surrounding it... afterall, they don't want to DROWN.... LOL
That was where I got my best info ..... and best prices... buying bulk...

1967250s · #19 05-20-2003, 10:35 PM

This thread is right on time for me. I have discovered major (to me) rust dammage on the front driver side floor bord

It's where the rocker meets the floor & floor to crossmember.

From the looks of it, repairs were done (with metal & TAR), I would say 7-9 years ago when the car was painted!? And guess what? the infiltration were not identafied properly and the window seal NOT replaced.

So everything as to be redone by ... guess who?
I will use a combination of metal & fiberglass.

Not having any special tools to cut or bend metal, I need to know what do I need to work with metal?

Thanks

Dan

ps; will post pics when finished.

leathermang · #20 05-20-2003, 11:37 PM

1967250s, you need to get a copy of the Eastwood Co. catalog... You can learn a lot from catalogs... sometimes more than instruction manuals.... I know I have...
It depends on what you are going to need to do to the metal... but if you are going to pound it into curves.. then I suggest you get or make one of those leather pillows with steel shot inside it... and some hammers with various shape ends...
There is a wizard with metals by the name of Ron Fornier.... some of the best metal working books I have ever seen... this guy can build Indy racers from flat sheet stock...

1967250s · #21 05-21-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by leathermang
1967250s, you need to get a copy of the Eastwood Co. catalog... You can learn a lot from catalogs...but if you are going to pound it into curves ..

For now, all bends will be 90¡, but I would like a clean 90¡.
The only thing I have access to would be a vice to bend the metal.
Is there a specific metal cutter that would be recomended?
What guage metal is the best to work with?

Thanks leathermang for sharing a part of the "warehouse" that is fild with what you already know

(I'm going on my 3rd warehouse)

Dan

leathermang · #22 05-21-2003, 01:30 PM

Ok,, you are in luck if you only need 90 degree bends..... that vise and two pieces of angle iron clamped into the vise will allow you to hammer over the metal and get amazingly clean folds...
I don't know how big the pieces you are going to need are... or what thickness you need to attach to... so more info will be needed for thickness advise....
Many times it is best to just overlap what you have... not try to take out the old... and brace as far and wide as you can... I still say rivets are under appreciated... they have lots of advantages over many other methods of patching....solid steel.... will never come out by accident...
Cutting metal is not much fun. Everything depends on the size and type cut you are needing.... up to six inches... an abrasive cutoff saw..... is cheap and great.... over 6 inches... then you get into whether you need to be able to make curves... or if you need precision straight lines...
If you can afford it.... using 18 guage steel ( the thickest that the entry level nibblers say they will cut )... and getting a Metal Nibbler should cover you under all normal situations... Harbor Freight carries them.... under a $100... much under some times.. the big boys go for $500 plus.... but sure would be fun to have....
If you have to you can always use a torch... and water to TRY to keep it from warping..... and then grind.... a lot of labor and not very pretty edges...and not flat metal when finished either... cold cutting , if you can manage it... really helps....to avoid more labor in cleaning up the cuts...

1967250s · #23 05-21-2003, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leathermang
Many times it is best to just overlap what you have... not try to take out the old... and brace as far and wide as you can...
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I still say rivets are under appreciated... they have lots of advantages over many other methods of patching....solid steel.... will never come out by accident...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cutting metal is not much fun. Everything depends on the size and type cut you are needing.... up to six inches... an abrasive cutoff saw..... is cheap and great.... over 6 inches... then you get into whether you need to be able to make curves... or if you need precision straight lines...

In this case, overlaping is not recomended, the "original" metal (water was still coming in) was going fast (will try to post pic tomorow) even the repairs was rusting!
----------------------------------------------------------------
I will look very closely into rivets for the big job and fiberglass the small ones.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I will have to cut into the original metal to get rid of the cancer.
This is where the cutoff saw will come into play
By "abrasive cutoff saw" you mean a disk that is used with a drill?
and what "grade" would be best to cut the thick original metal?

Thanks

Dan

leathermang · #24 05-21-2003, 05:21 PM

I meant overlapping all the way to good metal...

I was talking about a 14 inch wheel.. but only for loose metal .. the patch you are going to put in...

TSC (Tractor Supply Co) has air nibblers for about $60.... Do you have an air compressor ?

There are small wheel metal cutoff air tools.... but some of those type things have access problems in tight spaces... and some throw sparks into crevices you don't want them to go...

I think , if the metal is not too thick, that the air nibbler is a very good combo unit... both for straight lines and for tight spaces....

But pictures would help....I am having to speak in general terms about advantages or drawbacks....

An air chisel will cut lots of stuff.... but also has access problems and turning problems in tight spaces....

The Air Flanger I mentioned.... with the nibbler.... and actual steel rivets.... would make a strong combination ( if done by the rules) and could be fiberglassed over without being too thick... using woven glass cloth....

1967250s · #25 05-21-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by leathermang
Do you have an air compressor ?

No I don't have one, but cuting that rust away is a must!
I have a few option as to reconstruction of the section, wich will be posted with the pics.
My main concern is how to get the rust out!

Thanks for the info, will be in touch soon with pics.

Dan

leathermang · #26 05-21-2003, 07:01 PM

You will want to keep as much structurally sound metal as possible... typically this is determined by using a " pick' hammer.. it has a sharp point... you hit, it goes through or dents, it is faulty, good metal will be obvious... surface rust can be dealt with on the strong metal... and then you deal with the size and shape of the patch...
On the rust, generally two really good ways come to mind...phosphoric acid... but this requires a water rinse, not really good inside a car... and one of the ' contained' sand blasters... it has a cover and vacuum to keep the sand from getting ALL over the place... places you can't even get it out of....
Wire brushes on drills, tend to make the surface smoother... so your rust proofing does not stick as well.... will also spread out some glues or stuff and make adhesion of the rust proofing faulty...
You will need both clean and grippy surfaces for everything to work right...
Will be looking for the pics....

1967250s · #27 05-23-2003, 11:44 PM

Here they are.....we will refer to them by number.

#1 : top view, driver side.

#2 : top view with diagram..

#3 : rocker-1

#4 : rocker-2 (close-up)

#5 : crossmember

1967250s · #28 05-23-2003, 11:53 PM

Now if wou'll exuse me, I'll go weep ....

#29 06-15-2003, 02:16 PM

My car has a SERIOUS rust problem. All the way from the front of the front door to the back of the rear door, pretty much on both sides, is all gone. I have to replace it all. I accidentally put too much weight just behind the front seat and the floor kinda sagged down. Luckily I can take it into my school's auto shop and get it on a jack so that I can get under it and patch the holes up. I think for now I'll just bolt some metal to the door frames (along the bottom) and over near the transmission. Anybody know a good metal to use that can be bent to shape and won't rust too easily, but can also be either welded on or will hold really well when bolted on? Cost isn't an issue as I can always work more to make the extra money, but I really wanna get this thing fixed. Thanks guys, and have fun with fixing your rust spots.

psfred · #30 06-15-2003, 03:08 PM

Complete floor pans are available from K&K Manufacturing, this is probably the best and easiest way in the long run, as they are made to fit exactly. Cut ot fit to the good metal remaining, and weld in. Undercoat and install sound deadening material, and you have a new floor complete.

Peter