Leaking may not be due to windshield gasket - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Dinosaur · #1 06-20-2003, 02:25 PM

Let me start by saying that I have found ths site invaluable in my quest to deal with the many issues that my 1983 300TDT 320.000 miles has had and some issues that still need to be addressed.

I don't post because I can't type. I use the hunt and peck method and I am physically challange at that. Most of you would be able the type faster using your toes than I can at full throttle.
Anyway, I have something to add to this site that I could not drag up via the search.
Since I bought the wagon I have had water coming inside the car at the top of the windshield. It dripped a little from the reveal molding both passenger and drivers sides. It would drip right on your left or right knee depending on which seat you were sitting on. This would happen after a rain or a heavy dew in the morning. The water would gather in this reveal molding. (MB service manual 68-400) Additionally, the A pillars would be damp. Sometimes all the way down to the foot wells. And after good rains the floors would be wet under the floor mats.
I cleaned every drain I read about on this forum. Except the back two sun roof drains. I still haven't found them.
This spring driving in a torrential storm coming out of Fla. My daughter and I had to bail the water as it was coming in. It rained for two hours and it was not fun. Funny but not fun. Getting home I did what every other member would have done. I read all the posts on the windshield seals and decided to procede. Coincidently, a friend was having water problems with the rear window on his newly purchased 1980 240d. We pulled that one first. It took 4 or 5 tries to learn how to install the window correctly. Do not bend the decorative molding !when replacing the windshields. Spend as much time as possible cutting out the old rubber without bending the aluminum.
After fixing his without a leak. I pulled my front windshield, being extra carefull not to bend the aluminum molding.
The PO had the windshield replaced before and the clown that did the install used generous amounts of 3M polyurethane adhesive. It took countless hours of work to remove the adhesive remains without grinding out the paint.
By the way, curiously there was no rust on the body seam where the window seal pulls onto. It looked new. I replaced the windshield seal, I also bought the MB window sealing compound. I did it right (like we all do), I waited a couple of days to let it sit before taking the car out in the rain. When I did take the car out in the rain. (I live in Ohio, it has rained every day this sping I think) The same leak was still there! What the ***** I researched some more and emailed for help. Thanks Fred.
To get to the point. I knew that the windshield seal was not leaking. I removed the interior top reveal molding (the piece that the sun visors rest in) and peeled back the headliner to see that the SUNROOF DRAIN PAN SNOUTS ARE RUSTED

Dinosaur · #2 06-20-2003, 02:31 PM

Sorry I didn't finish. I must have timed out typing.

The steel snouts that connect to the plastic drain tubes are both rust out.
The water was not going out the drains but coming in the car.
I am now looking for a used or new drain pan.

Thanks,

Mike

Dinosaur · #3 06-23-2003, 11:01 AM

This morning I took some digital photos of the rusted drains. They are to large to submit as is. If someone would like to edit them or reduce their size I will email the photos.
Thanks,

Mike

R Leo · #4 06-23-2003, 02:32 PM

Posted for Dino.

R Leo · #5 06-23-2003, 02:33 PM

Posted for Dino.

R Leo · #6 06-23-2003, 02:34 PM

Posted for Dino...

ACK! This is grim. Aren't there actually FOUR drains? If so, you might consider pulling the headliner out and inspecting those other two drains as well.

If you cannot find a replacement roof pan, it might be possible to Ospho the heck out of those stubs and JB weld some suitable plastic tubing in place as a replacement nipple for the drain tubing to attach onto.

Not a pleasant job by any stretch of the imagination.

Good luck!
R Leo

leathermang · #7 06-23-2003, 03:00 PM

"friend was having water problems with the rear window on his newly purchased 1980 240d. "
For your friend....tech bulletins.....

67_009 APR 82 Rear Window Sealing Frame - Modified

97_012 APR 84 Body - Mercedes Body Seam Sealer Precaution

97_015 SEP 86 Body - Applying PVC Undercoating and Seam Sealer

72_025A MAR 83 Window Frame - Reveal Moulding Replacement

from: http://alldata.com/TSB/35/80350202.html

JimSmith · #8 06-23-2003, 03:27 PM

Dino,

If you cannot find a new or used part you may be able to repair the problem with POR-15, a product that I found on this site. I have purchased some but did not find the time to use it before the weather and work, as well as my daughter's schedule for departure ran me out of time (she took the car to California earlier this month and is using it out there).

The product line up includes fiberglass and putty filling materials and techniques that use the POR-15 to stop the rust. You might find one of these solutions worthwhile for situation. Hope this helps, Jim

Dinosaur · #9 06-23-2003, 04:23 PM

R Leo,
Thank you for posting the pictures of my sunroof drain stubs.
They are seriously rusted and I'm concerned about their soundness. I need to inspect their insides as well. You brought up a good question. How do the rear drain stubs look? I guess need to think about removing the headliner.

Jimsmith,
I have heard of por-15 before. I've used extend to neutralize rust before. These stubs are rusted quite severely and may need more work.

Has anyone pulled the sunroof drain pan ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

coachgeo · #10 06-23-2003, 08:11 PM

I really dont know what I'm looking at in these pics. Is that a rubber tube that is suppose to slip over a metal pipe...... of which is now rusted away?

If so... how about brazing in copper pipe to replace the rusted out one. Eleminate the problem copper does not rust. You could maybe cut out some of the rusted away metal if it is more than just the pipe that rusted out and weld or screw? in a plate with the copper pipe already brazed to it.

Just my .02. Yeah I know. easier said than done. I can see this working but I dont have the skills to do something like that myself.

I have a leak in my trunk I cant find.

Dinosaur · #11 06-24-2003, 08:23 AM

Coachgeo,

Yes, the black tube is a drain line running down the A pillars. As far as I can tell it is suppose to fit over the steel spout coming off the black painted sunroof (pan?). I was able to move the black tube away from and back onto the steel spouts. I'm thinking that someone years ago while cleaning the drain tubes pushed them slightly moving them off the steel enough that rusting started. At this point I think I will have to pull the drain pan and have it welded. This will require messing with the sunroof and the headliner both of which are in good shape now.

Taking the molding off, the rear view mirror(which just pulls off with a lot of effort) and the sun visors is not that hard. I recommend doing this to check for this problem if the car has been leaking at all.
I would guess that the black drain tubes must have been glued to the steel spouts a one time and the glue failed with age and heat.
I haven't alot of time right now to tackle this project so i will be tarping the car untill I can get to it.

Thanks all,

Mike

R Leo · #12 06-24-2003, 08:44 AM

To safely make a good joint (brazing or sliver soldering) and eliminate the risk of torching your car you will have to remove that pan. IMHO, the POR-15 - epoxy - or other unspecified goo is going to be the best route.

my .02
R

DeltaDave · #13 07-02-2003, 07:41 AM

I need to check my 85 300TDs drains. Does anyone know if the rear sunroof drains go through the door pillars or through the back of the car ?

wagonpilot · #14 08-17-2003, 08:38 PM

As I type this my 85 300td sunroof pan is in the garage with the POR-15 based repair drying. I had the same exact problem, and decided to just bite the bullet and remove the entire sunroof, pan, and do a complete repair. Luckily, mine only had the rusted pipe problem really bad on one side. The other front side was starting to rust, but had not started to "disappear". The back drains were fine. I think the fronts do most of the draining, and are most vunerable when they clog.

It's not all that bad of a job to get the pan out, but there is this real gooey foam weatherstripping that makes a mess of your entire shop! Sticks to EVERYTHING. I striped all that old gonk off, and will find something better to replace it.

I filled what was left of the rusted pipe with clay, then used POR-15 and fiberglass to construct a new pipe. Of course, all the other rusty areas were treated to POR-15 also.

I think if I were hiring out this job, I would probably use in interior shop as the primary contractor, to remove the headliner and pan, then take the pan to a rust specialist body shop. Then, let the interior shop reinstall the whole thing. I think a regular shop wouldn't have the finesse needed to work with that old headliner.

Good luck.

GottaDiesel · #15 12-22-2003, 01:17 PM

I would LOVE to know if anyone has actually removed their sunroof pan and re-done it. I found some serious crap that has me quite POed... but I want to fix it...

So... if anyone has any info... bring it on!

Pete